what is YOUR take on cheating?

Parent Cafe
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<p>thats a good example memie
some people might argue that everyone was cheating if they knew about it and didn’t report it. ( or some might say the teacher was cheating- not to leave clear instructions for the sub)</p>

<p>I would also agree with you in that if you could help it, to have the regular teacher administer the test</p>

<p>For this example- I admit I know nothing about calculus- but since my girls for example have a lot of difficulty with simple calculations- ( like addition facts) they are allowed to use a calculator for their work and on tests.
I am wondering that in the case of the calculus exam, if students used a simple calculator, if it would really interfere with the object of the test, which would be I assume to see what level of calculus they understood.</p>

<p>D1, also attended a college with an honor principle. Some tests were unproctored, and were to be turned in by say midnight of that day.
I think depending on the area to be tested, a test can be written where it woudn’t matter if it was open book or not</p>

<p>Again going back to learning disabilties, but I think this could help other people, some of her teachers in high school, allowed them to bring a 3 X 5 card in for tests, and they could handwrite on it ( no typing) as small as they could. This allowed them to write words that were “hooks” that could help them pull information out of their brain, instead of just staring at a blank piece of paper.
If the object is to see what students understand, rather than line them up against a wall and see who can spit out the best answer without any assists, then I don’t think that using a calculator or a notecard is cheating.
( if allowed by teacher)
( another example- but this time it was when I was in massage school- a very rigourous school that had cadaver anatomy class as part of curriculum. The bar for the program was way above what the state and even national certification required. I was doing very well in class, until it came time for the final exam. I was given several sheets of paper with the outline of the body- and was directed to write all bones, tendons, muscle attachments, ROM, ligaments, neurosystem accurately placed… down to smallest detail-
I failed the test, because after about 4 hours of that, my brain just stopped and I couldn’t think anymore. This was even though I had taken the national board certification exam and passed with flying colors. I couldn’t pass the schools test the way it was presented. This sort of thing, I think may be behind why some people cheat. Although I had studied extensively, since I didn’t pass, I had to drop out of the program and forfeit the thousands of dollars I had already paid for tuition. Very disappointing-and certainly that level of knowledge was not required to become a massage practioner, even an excellent one- as the owner of the school told me I had the potential to be- he just didn’t beleive that I had studied as much as I had)</p>

<p>We also live in an area, that is pretty honest- although a recent international bicyclist had his wallet & passport stolen when he parked his bike outside a local grocery for 5 minutes- the people of Seattle have been bending over backwards to show him, that , that wasn’t typical.</p>

<p>For example this recently happened to an aquaintance
She lost her wallet, freaked out- cancled all her cards & had no idea where it was.( she just moved here, and her ID was from another state- so who ever found it couldn’t have contacted her)
She got a phone call, from her hairdresser. Someone had found the wallet and the hair salon business card, was the only local number. After confirming that she indeed did lose her wallet, the person that found it contacted her, and apologized for not being able to get it back to her sooner!
( And everything was intact in her wallet)
I have had things like that happen a lot.</p>

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<p>I know that my kids have been frustrated by the cheating that goes on in schools. It seems more rampant in HS than college, or maybe it is just more visible. I know my youngest always has had a very strong sense of right and wrong and fairness. Plus he speaks out and gets angry when he sees people “getting away” with things. But like other posters’ kids, he didn’t want to “rat” on students, but would confront them face to face. Usually, their response was, “So what, no one is stopping you from doing it too”.</p>

<p>I would try and tell him that eventually these people will pay the price. Unfortunately so many times the biggest cheaters (in his school) were rewarded for it by very high class rank, elite school admissions, very competitive scholarships, etc. Even when “caught” by a teacher, it was rare that anything was done, as usually these kids could invoke pity or fast talk their way out somehow. The ones I heard of getting actual consequences for cheating were the students who were not in the top of the class–more like the bottom 25%–I guess they didn’t fight the punishment.</p>

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<p>There’s a simple solution to the calculus problem. Your daughter raises her hand and says “I don’t think calculators are allowed for this exam.” At which point everyone puts them away. Problem solved. </p>

<p>Teachers getting someone else to correct homework. It’s not so much cheating, but are they going to be effective teachers if they don’t know which problems are causing the class difficulty? I hope the teacher at least reviews the corrected homework.</p>

<p>The grant problem? Not sure. I know for scientific grants that in order to get the grant you have to have already done 90% of it to prove that it will work.
Parents helping with homework? Well is the purpose of homework to make sure the student learns the material or just to have another way of assigning grades? In most instances I think the purpose is learning the material.</p>

<p>Jiggling finances. If it’s legal it’s not cheating. But maybe we need to make what’s legal line up with what’s ethical.</p>

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<p>The calculus problem is easily solved if you are not a teenager under the influence of heavy peer pressure. It’s a shame that kids are not comfortable telling the teacher about cheating because they know that they will suffer the consequences more than the cheater does in many cases.</p>

25

<p>Thanks for letting me rant about academic cheating:</p>

<p>Last week a junior at my D’s high school was expelled for cheating. This is what the student did:</p>

<p>Hacked into school server, copied every T’s tests/quizzes available, posted them on a website and sold them to students in those classes. These are honors and AP courses. Student had to face parents, all the Ts and the principal. I don’t know what else is happening to the student at this point.</p>

<p>My D is a TA for one of the T’s affected by this crime. She and another TA helped him this past summer by giving their opinion of the course (they had just finished it) and what helped them do well on their AP exam. He tailored this year’s curriculum and tests/quizzes to their input and what he thought would make the class better. He rewrote all the tests and quizzes for the year. He has to rewrite the tests. He is giving the cheaters who bought the information “0” on every test for the semester because they have the information. He has cancelled all quizzes so now tests are worth 60% of the grade instead of 40%. The cheating affects all the students.</p>

<p>Cheating is despicable and it represents a serious lack of wisdom, judgement and I believe is a character defect.</p>

<p>When I was in college, there was a student in the pre-med program who cheated in a lab practical. Each student was given a test form on which to write in order, the numbered structures on the various specimins they had dissected that semester. Each test form had a number and students took the test in order. The cheater moved pins on the specimins after he had written his answers. He was discovered (duh!) and faced serious consequences. I don’t know what happened to him, but I do know that he did not go to medical school.</p>

<p>I am not impressed by success that is gained through dishonesty. I am impressed by hard work, perserverence and tenacity. Cheating represents first and foremost: fear and low self esteem…it also represents arrogance, laziness, selfishness and of course dishonesty.</p>

<p>Anyone who condones cheating is just as disgusting. There is no excuse for cheating.</p>

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<p>I just want to add that the situation that Memie’s daughter was in is quite difficult. Her silence was not to condone the cheating but to keep herself from being ostracized. She is in a difficult situation–the risk of being the outcast if she ratted but feeling that what they did is so wrong and unfair. I don’t know how that situation could be resolved. </p>

<p>The problem is that cheating is condoned before it happens. Someone who posted earlier said that children watch and learn. They learn more from what they see than from what they hear.</p>