<p>(academic cheating)</p>
<p>is it worth it? what is the cause and effect? who does it harm? is it a big problem?</p>
<p>I asked my wife and, apparently, it’s wrong.</p>
<p>I learned how to do it in school. I didn’t even know the word til I got there. They taught me it was a good idea, and then had to teach me it was a “no no”.</p>
<p>Are you serious? Polls show it’s a big problem. It harms both the cheaters and the non-cheaters. It breaks down trust in our society and turns us into a police state.</p>
<p><em>joins mathmom in a high state of incredulity</em>
The honest people who don’t cheat. The dishonest person who does cheat and chips or hacks away at his own good character. Does that about cover it?</p>
<p>It’s a slippery slope. Rationalizing that it doesn’t hurt anyone is a cop out. </p>
<p>Integrity can’t be turned on and off. I am sure that the cheaters in school become the fraudulent business exectives after school. Real people were hurt there: stockholders and employees and their families.</p>
<p>some of it occurs when some teachers aren’t instructing students how to properly cite references in papers- they teach them one way- ( or not teach them) then when they get to college they are expected to do it another way.</p>
<p>In washington, students are encouraged to cheat on the state exam
</p>
<p>[“Statistics in a WASL paper can be made up by you, the writer!” says a PowerPoint presentation that the Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction (OSPI) created to be used this summer for students who fail the WASL this spring.](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2002870594_writingwasl17m.html”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2002870594_writingwasl17m.html</a> )</p>
<p>* In your essay you can have them find those WMD!*</p>
<p>Ask yourself what sort of person you want to be. If you want to have slimy ethics, then cheat. If you don’t want to have slimy ethics, then don’t.</p>
<p>I think people are asking themselves “do they want to be rich and successful or poor and ethical”</p>
<p>I think you said it all. I used to be a big cheater, and didn’t care a whole lot about ethics. I thought that the kid next to me wasn’t a cheater, and had “ethics”, but he also had his parents behind him to help him study for his tests, or money to take individual classes (basically buy his diploma.) If society/teachers didn’t do anything to balance this inequality, I’d have to do it myself. That was my take two years ago, I don’t share it anymore but I will never blame a cheater either. Cheating is wrong, the cheater isn’t always.</p>
<p>
I completely disagree with the notion that cheating is a requirement of success!!!</p>
<p>Think of the many corporate scandals over the past few years. These were oftentimes intelligent people, who just didn’t recognize when they crossed the line. </p>
<p>My answer would be that cheating hurts everyone, but the cheater most of all. Getting ahead on false pretenses will inevitably catch up with someone. I believe in setting a stake in the highest moral ground, and analyzing every situation with absolute honesty. I’ve had many conversations with my kids over the years where we talked about questionable situations. I try to make sure they understand that their integrity and honesty is the most important attribute they have, and that we value that above GPAs and test scores. As far as honesty goes, when they were little, I would use the example of a cashier who returns too much change, and explain that I thought my character was worth more than the extra $10 or whatever. </p>
<p>So, there is no excuse for cheating.</p>
<p>It annoys my h.s. daughter when other students ask to see her homework (to copy) or repeatedly call her for help on things they could do by themselves if they were not so lazy. She is up until midnight and sometimes later most nights working diligently to complete her assignments. Her response to the would-be cheaters is, “Why should I share my work that I spent six hours completing last night while you were watching TV, playing on the computer, or socializing with friends?”</p>
<p>If someone has a legitimate question or truly does not understand an assignment, she is more than willing to help them. She knows that she is fortunate to have the support of two college-educated parents, who are good resources when she gets “stumped,” while some of her classmates’ parents don’t even care if they do their homework.</p>
<p>My take on cheating: it’s bad; don’t do it.</p>
<p>i didn’t say that cheating was a * requirement* of successful people.
I am sure there is someone somewhere who is both rich and ethical.</p>
<p>But it is pretty obvious that we approve of cheaters all the time.
Is it cheating to get silicone injections and breast implants, when it helps you get a job?
Is it cheating to hire illegal immigrants or is it cheating when you find a doctor that will prescribe you the drugs you are addicted to?
Is it cheating to fudge on reports in order to get funds for your projects that will serve many people?
Is it cheating to lift test from one best selling book so you can have your own best selling book?</p>
<p>I think we also have different versions of what ethical is.
To expand on minis example elsewhere- forcing farmers to purchase rice seed that will produce more, but require more pesticides and have fewer nutrients is unethical. But I am sure those who work for the world bank don’t see it that way- because if the yield increased, that was the most important thing.
Some might think allowing lower GPA for athletes/minorities/legacies is unethical. Others might argue that it is necessary.</p>
<p>Ethics are not black and white.</p>
<p>An example that is often discussed in philosophy classes is what is the ethical position? A pharmacist has a drug that could save the life of a father’s child. However, the pharmacists decidesthat because this drug is so valuable, he will ask for a years salary. The man cannot borrow the money- but he does have the opportunity to steal the drug.
Which is the ethical response?</p>
<p>How can you have any self-respect when, rather than working to accomplish something, you cheat?</p>
<p>I don’t think that they see it that way
Do people involved with lying to the american public about whether there were WMDs in Iraq in order to go to war seem to be struggling with their conscience?</p>
<p>Dont get me wrong- I have a pretty highly developed sense of ethics, for example-
we didn’t go to the food bank, when we didn’t have any income and were living off savings, because I felt it would be unethical to take food when others needed it more.
Someone else might argue that it would be more ethical to make sure my children were fed, and to save my savings, in case of an even more extreme emergency.
Again most cases are not black or white.</p>
<p>“How can you have any self-respect when, rather than working to accomplish something, you cheat?”</p>
<p>My first lesson in school was that one accomplished more (and hence developed more self-respect) through “cooperation”. They drummed it in to me for three months.</p>
<p>Then they gave me a test.</p>
<p>EK, most people understand what cheating is. One either condones it or not. I’m one who does believe that many situations are black and white – the gray ones are few and far between. (like your pharmacy example.)</p>
<p>Another question with school cheating: When should a student report cheating to a teacher? </p>
<p>My daughter had a big Calculus test one day while the teacher was absent. It was supposed to be a “no calculators allowed” test with lots of tedious problems to work involving decimals. Since the substitute teacher apparently did not know that calculators were not allowed, many students sitting near my daughter used theirs on the test. My daughter did not use hers.</p>
<p>She was mad about her fellow classmates’ cheating when she came home from school that day, but she did not want to “rat on them.” There is so much peer pressure to keep your knowledge of cheating to yourself. She also knew that everyone would figure out that she was the informant if she told, and they already dislike the fact that she usually “blows the curve” for the class because she actually studies and works hard at home. I was tempted to e-mail the teacher to let her know that such misbehavior had occurred in her absence, but my daughter told me to “let it go.” </p>
<p>There is an honor code at the school that asks students to confront cheaters and to encourage them to turn themselves in. Well, as you can easily figure out, this never happens.</p>
<p>As a high school teacher myself, I do not leave tests for my classes to take when I am absent - not only because of potential cheating, but also because there may be questions about the test that a substitute simply cannot answer.</p>
<p>I do think many academic situations are black and white
You either are cheating on a test or not
You either hold up your end on a project or not.
But I also see academic situations like this
Teachers pay students or use parents to correct homework for them
Is this cheating?
Schools accept grant money ( like from the Gates foundation) that is earmarked for specific functions- but instead of writing the transformation plan and then implementing it- they spend the money then write the transformation plan to support what they spent the money on * resulting in the grant being pulled the next year*
- was this cheating?
Teachers give higher grades to students who may or may not have parents who help them understand the work- I for example don’t think this is cheating, I think that the object is to understand what they are supposed to be learning in class, and frankly- the way math is taught for example- it requires many families including our own to hire outside tutors to help our child. This isn’t doing the work for them, but since some families aren’t going to hire tutors, and their child may get a lower grade because of it,
is this cheating?
Lots of people on the boards, are given suggestions to juggle ( legally) finances, to optimize the chance at good financial aid.
Some may be borderline deceitful, but it is still legal.
I don’t think they consider that cheating.</p>
<p>Some instances are pretty black and white. But the point I am trying to make is that unless we actively think about what our values are, and at least in retrospect examine the choices that led to our decisions, I think that what could be a clear case of “right/wrong” to one person, isn’t so clear to someone else.</p>
<p>Another educational example.
BOth my kids had learning differences- and should qualify for extended time on tests because of their 504 plans- including on SAT.
Because older Ds test, identified that she had extended time, it wasn’t a hassle to get the accommodations.
However, the College board has since changed the identification, and scores no longer indicate that someone had accommodations.</p>
<p>This has resulted in some students being able to game the system, by obtaining extra time, when they don’t have processing deficits that require that, but then other students, who have 504s or IEPs and who * need* the extra time, to be able to show their true level of ability, are having difficulty, some actually being denied accommodations, because their file wasn’t written in a way that the CB wanted.</p>
<p>I think example is very important- kids learn so much from their parents, even when you don’t think they are watching.
I see kids do some things & I know, that they didn’t necessarily come up with that on their own.</p>