<p>I am asking this here because I know some of you have kids who have gone through this process before or perhaps work with admissions on some level. And also here, because the law school forum isn’t nearly as active ;-)</p>
<p>My DD is planning to apply to law school this year and has asked a few professors and supervisors for letters of recommendation. I was curious if anyone here has been on the other side or the table or has any input on what points should be brought up in a good letter or recommendation? </p>
<p>A few have asked her what information she would like them to include and she wasn’t sure what type of information schools would be looking for out of these letters. She has provided them with her resume for reference and depending on her relationship to them, relevant information on their connection, ie classes she has had with them or projects she has worked on with them.</p>
<p>hi
since you said any input, I have read this book off public library and it had extensive word choices what makes “good” and “bad” recommendation.
[Amazon.com:</a> What Colleges Don’t Tell You (And Other Parents Don’t Want You to Know): 272 Secrets for Getting Your Kid into the Top Schools (9780452288546): Elizabeth Wissner-Gross: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/What-Colleges-Dont-Other-Parents/dp/0452288541/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1314926211&sr=1-1]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/What-Colleges-Dont-Other-Parents/dp/0452288541/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1314926211&sr=1-1)
The book is for UG elite schools and some of the parts are over the top ridiculous yet there are something in there we could learn from.
I don’t have the book in hand but something in the line of “best dressed” “neat” are wrong sort of thing to be said about the student.
It tells how to pick good recommender to ask for the letter, how you should self brag and underwrite the letter already, and of course you should read what it says before you’d submit. Crazy.
I don’t want to endorse this author or anything just that, it was real fun read.</p>
<p>OP is asking for advice here. If this is not a good book and gives crazy advice, then why should OP read it, because it is fun? I don’t know why a book like that would be fun to read.</p>
<p>I know of a number of professors who ask the student to write the recommendation and then they look it over and adapt it if necessary. That’s certainly one way to ensure a good recommendation, but it doesn’t answer the question.</p>
<p>A good recommendation has specific examples of what you did and how those examples show your intelligence, creativity, empathy or whatever good quality you want to emphasize. </p>
<p>You can get a good recommendation without having gotten an A in the course. My younger son got a very nice one from a math teacher who said he didn’t always get the best grades in the class because he had trouble remembering formulas, but that you could tell from the way he did the problems on tests that he understood the material thoroughly, probably better than the kids who were better at memorizing shortcuts.</p>
<p>And for a little boast moment I don’t think it gets better than this the final paragraph in a LOR my older son got.</p>
<p>To the OP…your daughter sounds like she is doing exactly the right thing. She needs to choose folks who know her well. I think giving them her resume is an excellent idea. If she has a list of things she has done (related to her future schooling) she might want to give that to these folks too. This could include volunteer work, or other things she has done that might not be on a resume.</p>
<p>The key is to make sure you give the person writing the letter sufficient time to do it.</p>
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<p>This book does not sound particularly helpful. In most cases, letters of reference for law schools are sent directly to the law school. The student does not get a chance to see the letter. I seriously doubt that a good recommendation writer will want the student to write the letter themselves. Crazy is an understatement.</p>
<p>have any one of you read the book or heard about it?
It is basically saying everything you are suggesting
pick the person who knows you well and do you the most favor
give ample time because you are not the only one who is asking
wrote down your own achievement, strength, point of view, because those nice profs usually can’t remember you from the next kid.
yes, everything is sent directly, but it does not mean you can not read it before it was sealed and sent. No I don’t know about law school but some recommender wants to do the job right and ASK you to read it to make sure all is correct and a-go (I have known so and so for since last year whichever seminar, which was actually WRONG! cut in half or quarter, no fault of the profs but it happens)</p>
<p>OP asked ANY input, and I think principal is the same, job, internships, UG, G, fellowships, no?</p>
<p>-The book is for UG elite schools and some of the parts are over the top ridiculous yet there are something in there we could learn from.</p>
<p>good part, bad part, crazy attention getting line and let’s get serious line. exaggeration. excessive bragging on her own genius opera singing intel winning Ivy boys…
what else is new in this sort of advice giving book?</p>
<p>Oh wait OP
if you mean the book, that is written strictly for parent.
There are topics on backpack policing, teacher bribing etc you don’t want your kid to know what you are up to.
But if D is already out of the rat race and now 20 something year old, suppose OK. maybe she’d read it like chick-lit (which I did)</p>
<p>The best LORs say the student is the BEST or MOST or TOP in the teacher’s x years at y school, etc. Superlatives catch the attention of admissions people. It is these such letter that may sway a committee somewhat. But that’s the best case scenario. Most LORs just reassure the admissions committee that applicant is the good student their grades, test scores indicate and is socially able to participate in classroom activities. The worst case is a recommender who clearly does not know or remember the student. Vague praise is almost a negative, since admissions committees are used to reading over-praising as a rule. </p>
<p>The smart advice is for students to find professors/teachers to bond with early on and build those relationships. This is often easier if the student is doing research for the prof or involved in ECs with him/her. Also good if they have had out-of-class discussions or in-office hours conversations, too. With a good foundation for a relationship, it is likely that professor will want to write something more encouraging than non-specific generalizations.</p>
<p>^ True, but the problem seems to be like grade inflation. The majority of letters I get to read (for selecting graduate students) seems to say this kind of thing. It goes in one ear and out the other (or one eye and out the other). To me, saying “best ever student” is much too general. </p>
<p>I DO think specifics, details, examples and evidence of platitudes and positive generalities are very important. It helps one develop a vivid image of the student and what makes them tick, distinct from all the other ‘best/amazing/excellent/outstanding’ students in the pile. It also seems much more authentic and convincing, and that the prof cared enough to invest a lot in crafting a special letter. </p>
<p>The challenge (for the applicant trying to get such a letter) is being known enough (as madbean points out how to go about that). Also if the applicant is asked to ‘assist’ in what goes in the letter, the examples, details, specifics have to be from the letter writer’s experience with the applicant. But the applicant can help the writer by reminding them of their role in the lab, what they accomplished, particular grades, possibly things that the prof once said to the student about their presentation. That kind of thing. It is MUCH more likely that the applicant will remember all those good things than the prof will. </p>
<p>Also the applicant should look to see if there is also a form for the letter writer to complete. Not uncommon to have a check list kind of grading system required. There you can see criteria like “creativity” or “leadership ability” where the letter writer is asked to rate the applicant relative to past students (as but one example). Possibly using that as the guide, the student can suggest examples of how they have shown each (but again ones that would be relevant to the letter writer- that the letter writer would have observed, even if they can’t quite remember offhand without a bit of help).</p>
<p>The best letters point out why this student is special. A letter that says “one of the best in my 15 years of teaching” is a very good recommendation; a letter that says “one of the best in my 15 years of teaching because he always poses thoughtful, insightful questions that demonstrate maturity of thought and excellent understanding of complex concepts” is much better.</p>
<p>When I write letters for students, I always ask for a resume or a list of points they intend to highlight in their application as well as a copy of their cover letter. My letters always include specific examples of the student’s achievement - rather than saying “Snowflake is a leader among her peers,” I describe in some detail how Snowflake organized the honor society food drive, convinced an unprecedented number of people to donate and got the group positive news coverage in the process.</p>
<p>IMO, this thread is filled with bad advice. You should be asking this question on the law board. I know I sound rude, but a good LOR for law school is NOT the same as a good rec from a high school teacher. It’s highly unlikely that a college prof at a top college will write a LOR sayng that a student is one of the top 15 he’s ever taught, for example. A rec saying that Snowflake organized the honor society food drive, etc. will not help one iota in getting into law school. And I don’t know what “cover letter” is being referred to–as far as I know there’s no such animal in law school admissions. </p>
<p>Law school admissions and UG admissions are two VERY different processes. Check out books on LS admissions–see especially Montauk & Klein or Anna Ivey’s book.</p>
<p>When I write letters of recommendation for grad school or medical school, if the student has not worked in my lab or been my advisee, but has just been in a class of mine, I generally ask the student to meet with me, so that we can have a conversation about their interests and accomplishments. Ahead of the meeting, the student supplies a resume, transcript (and a copy of the AMCAS application, if a med-school applicant). I have fairly detailed records of the student’s class performance, and tend to recall noteworthy aspects. We talk, and I take notes during the meeting, then send emails later if needed.</p>
<p>Ideally, your daughter would have a professor or two who knows her well, and doesn’t need the background session. Beyond that, if your daughter can find someone who is willing to take the time to talk with her at some length, that would usually be a good sign that the person will put effort into the recommendation.</p>
<p>By the way, Harvard provides its faculty with a guide to writing letters of recommendation.</p>