What makes U of C so 'unique'?

<p>There are claims about academic rigor. That if you go to Chicago, then you will learn a lot more than at an Ivy. But of course there is no proof other than anecdotes. What is sometimes cited as proof is that the GPAs at Chicago are very low. The relationship between academic rigor and GPA is questionable to begin with, but here no argument could even be made. Studies have shown that Chicago’s grade inflation is in line with the national trend:</p>

<p>[GPAs</a> get a .76 boost from gradeinflation - The Chicago Maroon](<a href=“Quartet-in-residence again awes the Mandel faithful – Chicago Maroon”>Quartet-in-residence again awes the Mandel faithful – Chicago Maroon)</p>

<p>In fact, it beats Princeton and Columbia as far as grade inflation goes. Plus, it beats many other universities that are in the 15-50 range. </p>

<p>Now what’s overtly unusual about Chicago is its low selectivity compared to other ‘top’ institutions as defined by U.S. News. Sitting at 28% or higher, Chicago contrasts amusingly with the sub 10% acceptance rate of Columbia or Duke’s 17% though they all have the same rank. Some would excuse this as ‘the applicant pool is self-selected’, but isn’t just about every applicant pool self-selected? You won’t have many people with 2.5/1500 applying to Harvard, just as you won’t have many people with 4.0/2400 applying to University of Bridgeport. You might point to Chicago’s high average freshman SAT (75th %ile is 1530) and high GPA as evidence of the uniqueness of its applicant pool, but if you look around you’ll find that this isn’t unusual. Rice, for example, has been able to achieve roughly the same student stats (75th %ile SAT is 1510, and for ACT it beats UofC with 34 over 33) with about the same pool ([Rice</a> University | News & Media](<a href=“http://www.media.rice.edu/media/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=10532]Rice”>http://www.media.rice.edu/media/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=10532)). In short, Chicago’s pool’s composition is not statistically very different from that of other top schools’ pools. And obviously the average Chicago applicant doesn’t have a unique, burning desire to attend, otherwise Chicago wouldn’t have a 39% yield rate. </p>

<p>So Chicago seems to me to be just like another top school, albeit, with more Nobel Prize winners and less name recognition. People say that is has a better education and that the core curriculum teaches you how to think. But it’s really hard to buy the arguments about Chicago providing a superior education to that of other peer institutions when they have produced many successful graduates. Do the people at the Ivies really learn so little if they continually become the top academics, businessmen and leaders? And the core curriculum’s promise to teach you how to think is no different from the myriad other promises to teach you how to think. Who hasn’t encountered that phrase at least once in high school? (along with other buzz words like higher-order thinking, critical thinking, ‘rigorous’ etc) Now I have laid out my doubts, as coherently as I could in 20 minutes. Who’s up to show me wrong?</p>

<p>It’s the vibe, not the numbers.</p>

<p>I haven’t heard anyone say UChicago’s “better” than any of the Ivies. Just on par with the Ivies.</p>

<p>Why I personally consider it better? Easy: Student atmosphere. And even that I wouldn’t consider particularly “unique”, as other schools such as Reed and MIT easily have the same vibe (albeit the latter has a different focus).</p>

<p>This is as good description of the University and what makes it special as I have read: [The</a> Idea of the University Colloquium: Donald N. Levine](<a href=“http://iotu.uchicago.edu/levine.html]The”>The Idea of the University Colloquium: Donald N. Levine)</p>

<p>From the link:

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<p>Robert Pippen, the faculty representative on the search committee that spoke at the Zimmer news conference, exclaimed how surprised he was to hear this [same] refrain time and time again as the search committee visited campuses throughout the nation. </p>

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<p>To me, the biggest difference is in the numbers. The graduate students outnumber the undergrads 2 to 1, I think. This creates a much more mature and serious academic environment and makes the college feel more like a grad school than an extension of prep school/high school.</p>

<p>This carries over into the way the profs treat students and the way the undergrads think of themselves. It really feels like a single, integrated community of scholars of which undergrads are a respected part.</p>

<p>I say Chicago is better than most of the mid-lower Ivies.</p>

<p>Namurt - just re-read what idad posted whenever you wonder about what distinguishes Chicago from its peers. What’s cool is that, while professors such as Robert Pippen DESCRIBE Chicago well, it’s even more exciting to EXPERIENCE it firsthand.</p>

<p>I’d say for pure academic quality Chicago is on par with HYP. And better than Penn, Dartmouth, Cornell, and Brown.</p>

<p>Namurt</p>

<p>What sets Chicago apart from its peers is exactly its unusual admission process. You should realize that in many cases, when admission counselors are discussing an application, the word “SAT” isn’t mentioned at all. It is also important to know that Chicago admission officers often do not know the SAT average until after the admission process is over because Chicago admission committee understands that SAT does not portray a student’s abilities and academic prowess accurately. </p>

<p>What first drew me to Chicago was the proximity of its curriculum to the IB program. In addition, Chicago really teaches you how to think, how to question the knowledge instead of solely absorbing and regurgitating trivial facts. I’ve spoken to many Chicago alumni, and they all said that Chicago’s rigorous core curriculum really taught them not just be great “knowers”, but “questioners”, too. This is exactly what distinguishes Chicago from other universities. Chicago students often are not pressured socially to be “cool” by joining all sorts of parties and get drunk. They’re much conscientious and more mature than their counterparts at other universities.</p>

<p>I am not a big fan of parties, and I am often influenced by my peers. For example, when I see my friends having expensive phones, I really want one too. Chicago provides a pure environment for me, empowering me to become a motivated individual.</p>

<p>Faculty. How we compare to our peers depends on the department, of course, but we have the most theoretically productive or founding departments in an almost hilariously large number of fields. I won’t say we are <em>better</em> than HYP, but our undergrad program is hard to beat, and if you study, say, Econ, Sociology, Mathematics, Linguistics or Anthropology among many other things, it would be near-impossible to find a more qualified set of teachers.</p>

<p>This place seems set up to prepare people for academia much more than the ivies, and it shows. Fun is had, but if you dive in to classes, you will be taken seriously by people doing important research. It’s nifty.</p>

<p>You’re making two very distinct points–one about selectivity, and another about quality of education. As a preface, let’s get something out there right now: you haven’t made any statements capable of “proving wrong.” So I’m not sure what you’re really asking for here. As to the second (loaded) question, you are asking for empirical proof about things that cannot be empirically proven. There simply is no effective or meaningful way in which to compare academic experiences or quality of education.</p>

<p>In any event…</p>

<p>How are you defining “selectivity?” Is it the ability to attract applications which you can then turn down? If so, Chicago is not very selective. The fact is, very few applications are as difficult to fill out as Chicago’s. You cannot submit the Common Application, nor can you submit your standard “personal growth” essay that you can for the majority of other schools. Chicago’s “Uncommon Application” requires multiple original essays on very unusual topics. It requires substantial time and thoughtfulness.</p>

<p>Some schools play the rankings game (I won’t name any school in particular). They use the Common Application, send out applications willy nilly hoping lots of people will apply (that they can turn down, thus lowering their acceptance rate), and extensively use waitlists to ensure better yields and lower acceptance rates overall. Chicago does not do these things.</p>

<p>Couple this with Chicago’s general lack of name recognition amongst laypeople, and you can see why there aren’t many people applying to Chicago just “for the heck of it.” If it wanted to, Chicago could spend millions of dollars giving out applications and fee waivers to students just so it could turn them down. It could also switch to the Common Application, thus encouraging students just to apply for the sake of applying. But why would it do so? It has successfully attracted the types of students which make it unique for over a hundred years. </p>

<p>Does that mean that the same person who goes to Chicago would not have gotten into a school with a lower acceptance rate? No, it does not. The number of unqualified people you turn down has no bearing on the quality of people who actually are accepted. That is why it is more important to look at the SAT figures for incoming student than it is acceptance rate. A student with a high SAT score/GPA had other options. He or she selected to go to UChicago for one reason or another over other schools. That, in my mind, is selectivity.</p>

<p>As for academic experience, no one equates Chicago’s grade deflation (even assuming it still exists, which some argue it no longer does) with academic rigor. Nothing like setting up a straw man and knocking it down. Similarly, you talk about “success” without providing any information as to how you are defining it, citing any sources that validate whether certain grads have achieved it, and presuming that it originates from the quality of education one received in college. In other words, you try to appear as if you are making positive distinctions when in fact you’re making purely normative ones. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, many believe that a solid foundation like that provided by the Core Curriculum is necessary before a person can effectively study, understand, analyze and discuss any particular field. I tend to agree. And this is what some refer to as “learning how to think.” </p>

<p>Many schools (and not just Columbia) have subject requirements that arguably achieve the same goal. What is more unique, however, is having such a strong, core curriculum within a major research university. We are talking about a place that produced the Big Bang Theory, first measured the speed of light, split the atom, invented the process of radio carbon dating…(and I haven’t even gotten into the social sciences like econ, sociology, etc.). Thus, students at Chicago learn how to think from the leaders in their respective fields, and then take more specialized classes where they contribute to that field. In comparison, many schools (again, I won’t name names) treat the undergraduate experience as if it’s an extension of high school–they teach TO their students, they don’t collaborate WITH them. In many ways, this stems from the fact that professors at non-research institutions are themselves not contributing to their fields. Put more harshly, I consider them glorified high school teachers. Even worse, many schools use graduate students to do their teaching. At UChicago, I took more classes with graduate students (i.e., as peers in the same class) then I took from graduate students (where they were my “teacher”). </p>

<p>There is a big difference between learning economics from a grad student who teaches (in broken english) from a text book, and discussing economics with the professor who first espoused the ideas printed in that book. There is a big difference between learning about anthropology, and acting as an anthropologist. That is the difference between being taught to, and actually participating in, academia. </p>

<p>These sort of things also occur in other major research institutions. In larger ones, however, the size of the classes and student body in general is prohibitive in terms of both meaningful interactions in the classroom, and meaningful contributions outside of it (i.e., as research assistants, etc.).</p>

<p>Therefore, if you limit the pool of schools to those with core-like curricula, those within a major research university, and those with a relatively low student-faculty ratio, the list becomes much, much shorter.</p>

<p>When I was at UChicago, I took classes at the Law School, at the GSB (now Booth School of Business), I had internships in finance downtown, I was a research assistant for a professor that made one of the most significant contributions to his field (which was subsequently published in Nature, with my name listed as a contributor). In fact, most of my classes during my third and fourth years were dual-listings whereby graduate students were taking the same class. </p>

<p>Do some other schools allow you to take graduate level classes? Of course. Are other schools located in major cities allowing for internship opportunities. You betcha. Can you be a research assistant at other schools? Surely. Are there schools that have similarly small class sizes? Of course. But at the end of the day, finding all of these things in one place is not that common. Together, they make for an educational experience which is more unique, and represents quite a different model than sitting in a gigantic lecture hall, having someone who has a PhD read to you from a text book, or sitting in a small discussion room, listening to someone who (while very intelligent, for sure) hasn’t actually made a significant contribution to their field since leaving the big research university that granted them their PhD.</p>

<p>I remember my first day of law school, I had to purchase books at the bookstore at the University of Michigan, and something just felt off. After a few minutes, it finally dawned on me: everywhere I looked, there were stacks of these colorful text books. When I was at Chicago, I rarely had text books. We had more journals, actual books, etc. And here I was, staring at a textbook that literally had a snowboarder on the cover. I wondered if the professor assigning that text book was going to require her students to cover it in paper grocery bags (you know what I’m talking about). And this was the University of Michigan, one of the world’s preeminent universities.</p>

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<p>You sir made me produce tears of joy! You basically summarized the reasons why U of C is my top choice! One thing though, Chicago has switched to the “Common Application.”</p>

<p>maverick1978:</p>

<p>lol…I had a similar response when I started grad school at Columbia. I looked around campus to find libraries to work in and found that they all closed around 11 pm. I was like, don’t kids ever STUDY here??? </p>

<p>I remember at Chicago, there was a group of ppl who would leave the Reg at midnight to grab the choice seats at Crerar, which would stay open a couple of hours later. Now THAT was studying. </p>

<p>And don’t get me started on the lack of bookstores in upper Manhattan…</p>

<p>Not to badmouth Columbia, but there is no comparison in my mind between the intense academic environment nurtured at Chicago and the much more pre-professional vibe at CU. </p>

<p>If you’re interested in UChicago, you’ve probably read about the traditional 'Aims of Education" address given to each year’s entering first year class. The President of Claremont Graduate University, Steadman Upham, presented a speech several years back commenting on this tradition and the particular nature of UChicago’s ideas and methods:</p>

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<p>Namurt, you’ve hit it out of the park. U of C is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. It’s hard for people realize that given they so desperately need to believe there is something “great” about the school to ease the pain of their dreary lives on campus.</p>

<p>The Record has a wealth of information about the University. Here is the link: [The</a> University of Chicago Record | The University of Chicago](<a href=“Page Not Found | University of Chicago”>Page Not Found | University of Chicago)</p>

<p>I get the sense that none of the students there had to masturbate their egos in high school by telling all their acquaintances that they were going to the University of Chicago, because they knew most of their acquaintances had no idea the school existed (or assumed it was some public school that was a safety; in that case they were half right for most of us here =])!</p>

<p>Obama will change all of that.</p>