It meets the technical definition, but the colleges know the difference. It won’t be much of a boost, if any.
I hope that is the case.
@grandscheme I’m sorry you feel that way. Actually, I’m not sorry you feel that way. I think it was much ruder of you to try to invalidate the hard work that URMs put in everyday by saying our results essentially come down to checking race boxes, and that we’ll get in over your more “deserving” child.
^^^^ @TheAtlantic, I 100% agree with you that URMs work just as hard as everyone else for their spots. To be fair, though, I read @grandscheme’s complaint as being that the particular applicant in her example was not necessarily a URM but was a high socioeconomic Spanish-speaking European which, I agree with her, is not deserving of URM status. If anything, such applicants are OVER-represented.
@prospect1 if that’s the case I apologize completely for my misinterpretation.
That was the case. I was specifically referring to a high income, privileged second generation kid and not speaking of URMs in general. Without getting in to a debate about AA or the value or not of a URMs lack of privilege or how many generations we need to offer AA until we expect everyone to pull their own weight-WITHOUT getting in to all of that, I do see a flaw w AA in that economic status does not get factored in.
We encountered similar a few years back with a classmate of our daughter’s. Again, from a highly educated economically privileged family-but the mother’s roots were back in Puerto Rico. She went to school in the states and had nothing in common with the “typical” profile of a URM Hispanic. Their child ended up a Hispanic Nat Merit scholar. Compared to the general population, I don’t think he would have even earned commended status but because his mother’s relatives were from PR, he had scholarship opportunities and strong college admissions. His father chuckled recounting the value of the advantage.
The sister of a friend of ours married someone who is half Mexican a generation or two back. The family is wealthy, privileged. The kids go to an exclusive boarding school. The parents have stated they expect to work the Hispanic classification to their advantage.
Personally, I value the idea of my kids attending a college with as diverse an environment as humanly possible. Artists, athletes, scientists, poets, business go-getters, academics, inventors, religious types, musicians, internationals, disabled, URMs, rich kids, middle class kids, and poor kids. Exposure to all kinds of people is a valuable education in itself.
Re: URMs, I personally value the cultural diversity they bring regardless of their socioeconomic status. I, too, include in my friends wealthier African American and Hispanic families. The fact that they are wealthy does not mean that they do not bring diverse customs, life experiences and cultures to campus solely by virtue of their race and heritage. I appreciate colleges that make an effort to set aside spots for these students. I do not think there are as many spots set aside for URM as people assume, and the competition for these spots is fierce within their own community; ergo, they are not getting much of an advantage in admissions IMO.
That said, I maintain that the group most underrepresented these days on elite college campuses is the middle class. They represent the bulk of society, but they seem to be relatively sparse at these colleges.
Who wants some first hand experience. I attend Harvard as a URM, while sitting in a common room freshly moved in a couple days ago, scores casually came up. I had a 35 (top 25% for Harvard) the other Asian girl has a 33 (some where in the low middle 50%). Who is assumed to have the lower score? Who gets the brunt of the blame for being helped in the college admissions. People please move past your blind assumptions. I’m a URM who is also low income and never test prep, and yet people assume that other races “always” will out perform me. And FYI the other girl wasn’t some prodigy in the arts, sciences, or something else. Your assumptions are wrong so why don’t we all move on.
Dancelance, congratulations.
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@Dancelance: How do you know that you attend “as a URM” - was there some express statement or avenue of entry that made that clear to you?
People will make those assumptions (about the person in the room least likely to have merited entry, as they can determine) for the rest of your life. A good friend of mine whose son attended high school with my son was clear that people would always assume that my son walked in through some loophole (‘hook,’ in polite company) until he opened his mouth. Then they’d get it, and want to be near him, the same way one is inextricably drawn to beauty.
@Waiting2exhale I think when they say they attended as a URM they mean “they are a URM that attends this school”. They aren’t saying they are attending because they are a URM.
@Lift35 … I had not realized that the essay portion of the SAT is summarily disregarded until this past weekend. I agree with you wholeheartedly that one wants all the dedication, discipline and effort put into earning top marks on the writing section acknowledged, and placed in the queue of all the favorables a candidate has going for them. How disappointing to learn this; I’d always considered top marks in writing to be a complement of the marks one earns in reading, and, ultimately, a “check,” kind of like the relationship between multiplication and division.
It definitely is annoying knowing my writing section won’t really be looked at by a lot of schools, especially because it was a really big bright spot for me.
@Celcel: What wonderfully vulnerable, introspective voice you have. In light of that, I, too, very much wish you had been able to leave a more authentic and face-forward impression with the admissions readers to whom you submitted your college applications. Have the faith to do it the next time you must make an impression, and just treat your activities in your free time as valuable moments that you frame as organic experiences of which you speak of for their interdisciplinary aspects.
(My youngest child spends hours playing some version of a computer game that I am sure grew out of Civilizations, and when he shares with me all of the different aspects of world building that he must do in the game I am awed. He speaks of the impacts on a labor force and civic infrastructure, of materials engineering and cost/benefit analysis, as well as cultural influence and empire in a way I don’t believe I’d heard discussed until after high school. I know he is doing more than dreaming when he shares his joys on the computer with me.)
Good luck as you go forward.
@TheAtlantic: Yes, I began to wonder that a few minutes ago. I read it as “by dint of being a URM…”
Thanks.
@Joblue I disagree. Sure, there are kids who want to help people. Consider some of my friends who want to become doctors and physicians. Almost everyone says they want to be an anesthesiologist or a radiologist, and I think you know why ($$$).
ABSOLUTELY, they want to help people! But, then may I ask…
Why not become a surgeon? Brain Surgeon, Cancer Surgeon? Those who actually save lives.
I’ll answer: It’s too hard/its too much work. Those surgeons train extensively and have demanding shifts. Not to mention the actual surgery…
The same goes for girls who become nurses or physician assistants. They enjoy the fallacy of helping people, but not to point where it exceeds what they are willing to expend. The same goes for all the business majors etc. - those people just fantasize and romanticize themselves with a steady $200k job, BMW, upper-middle class standard of living, and a nice suit.
What we are willing to sacrifice defines us as people.
And by “forcing,” I mean participating in more ECs etc. Those kids will most likely go to a great college, get a good job, get married, grow old, and then die - all with making minimal differences. And don’t lie to yourself, you ARE applying to those schools because of prestige, or at least mostly because of it.
We can keep fooling ourselves for as long as we want, but we all know deep inside. Sacrifice is a virtue found in a few.
So, what I’m saying: Become a surgeon. Become something that will make a difference. Sacrifice, do what you NEED to do, what you WANT to do. Work hard, in school, yes, but don’t forget your real purpose after you graduate. Make a difference and take a plunge for someone or something else.
"same goes for girls who become nurses or physician assistants. They enjoy the fallacy of helping people, but not to point where it exceeds what they are willing to expend. "
Huh? Nurses and physician assistants help people, too. There’s no fallacy.
Wow, nurses have a pretty thankless job. They’d better like helping people; not too many other perks coming with that job.
You are absolutely right. The Vietnamese young lady I interviewed last year did not get into all 8 Ivies. She got waitlisted to Cornell. The other 7 admitted her. She also got into Stanford, Cal Tech, and MIT.
She opted to matriculate to Harvard and is very very happy.
When I interviewed her her proposed major was Math but she decided to go to Harvard because she now thinks she wants to go to medical school rather than getting her PhD in math.
Cornell.