Margaret A. Hagerman studied 30 affluent white families in a Midwestern metropolitan area.
I.e. a conflict between stated values and actual actions. (Note that many Midwestern metropolitan areas tend to have relatively high levels of residential racial segregation, visible at the census tract level on https://www.opportunityatlas.org/ if you switch from “household income” to “fraction non-white in 2010” and zoom in far enough.)
The effect on their kids’ values was noticeable, as there were differences between those “who were growing up in an exclusively white, suburban social environment outside the city” versus those “who lived in the city but attended predominantly white private schools” versus “other white kids living in the city”.
We moved from a suburban neighborhood that was predominantly white (we are white), to one that is very diverse, and we are probably in the minority here. Our kids attended public school here from grade school through high school. I think it was a smart move for us. Our lives have been enriched by our interactions and friendships with people of different races, ethnicities, etc.
We moved to a town that is very diverse. Some neighborhoods are less diverse, but our particular neighborhood worked with the local real estate agents in the late 1950s and early 1960s to make it clear that they wanted to be diverse. They did a lot of outreach in NYC as well trying to reach families who wanted to move to the suburbs, but find people with the same values. If I look at my adjacent properties - there are two Hispanic families, one other white family and three African American ones.
I raised my kids like I was raised in a fairly non-diverse environment. I wanted for them what my parents gave me, the opportunity to be raised where being Jewish was the norm. I felt that gave me a sense of security about myself and my heritage. My mother had been raised in an area where she was “one of the only”…and wanted something different for us. I have several friends raised that way too who wanted to have their kids avoid that. The trade off was less diversity although our suburb has more than many. I have no regrets.
It is not necessarily true that the only choices are non-diverse areas where your group is the great majority and diverse areas where anyone of your group is an unusual curiosity. Perhaps that may be more true in the more highly segregated metropolitan areas, but not every metropolitan area forces that choice. Granted, this may also vary depending on which group, since some groups tend to be more segregated than others (sometimes by others’ prejudice against them limiting where they can live).
But many people can find areas which are diverse but where their own group is one of several norms in the area (i.e. they are not unusual curiosities).
I raised my kids in a diverse town, with schools that were very much NOT SPECIAL. And in every way, that made them better human beings. I have little patience for the “values except my kids” mindset. Values are the most important thing you can teach children Get-ahead-ism is not.
“It is not necessarily true that the only choices are non-diverse areas where your group is the great majority and diverse areas where anyone of your group is an unusual curiosity. Perhaps that may be more true in the more highly segregated metropolitan areas, but not every metropolitan area forces that choice. Granted, this may also vary depending on which group, since some groups tend to be more segregated than others (sometimes by others’ prejudice against them limiting where they can live).
But many people can find areas which are diverse but where their own group is one of several norms in the area (i.e. they are not unusual curiosities).”
Maybe. But when it comes to religion ( some form of Christianity vs not ) this is less true. Jews make up a tiny fraction of the US population. There are not many area where you find a substantial number of Jews plus “many other norms” (I.e something other than Christian) religiously as well as racially. I was raised knowing my monority status in the US but not having to experience what that meant. I appreciated that. I decided to give that to my kids. I definitely tried to do many of the other things mentioned in the article. But as I said I don’t regret living where we did, and having life not be like it is for my cousins kids who are one of a very very tiny minority who don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter and who do observe the Jewish holidays.
In other words, it looks like you are saying that Jewish people tend to be highly segregated (neighborhoods are either mostly Jewish or have very few Jewish people) in your metropolitan area, correct?
I think the larger context matters too, since we all interact with people in our larger area or neighborhood as well as our closer one.
I used to live in a very diverse neighborhood with many immigrants. The next neighborhood over was more white. A couple of miles away was a Jewish neighborhood like Maya described, where people chose to live within walking distance to their synagogue because that’s the only way they could get there on the sabbath. They were choosing to cluster together but I didn’t consider them insular.
There’s not a whole lot of ethnic diversity where we live, but we didn’t choose it for that. We chose it because it has the topography, location, and general human density we prefer.
H’s parents, esp my MIL, are some of the most racist folks I know to this day, though FIL has softened a little. H isn’t. My kids have actually done some sort of online test while at college which says they are not. Considering youngest’s fiancee isn’t Caucasian and oldest chose to attend and get married in a mostly different race church, I tend to believe the results of the test. Middle doesn’t have a SO yet, but he’s loved in the free clinic (medical) where he volunteers because, “He treats the clients like people - He relates well to them,” (according to what a friend who runs the clinic told my aunt and she relayed to us). I’m glad we’ve broken the cycle of racism in one family.
Never underestimate what traveling/wandering and mingling can do along with a couple of college roommates plus other friends. Due to my in-laws, we’ve discussed racism and people being people from a pretty darn young age with my lads. Then they were able to see it in action by our lifestyle - plus what there is around us here at home even if that’s not a high percentage.
Travel can help one not live in a bubble - pending where and how they travel I suppose.
My offspring went to schools and grew up in a neighborhood that is moderately ethnically diverse, the city as a whole, more so. However due to the socioeconomic divide between races in this city, I don’t know that it helped them become more tolerant or inclusive, sadly. What did change the dynamic is that our extended family is multiracial, so beloved relatives from far away were of other races and that looks normal to them. We are now third generation Asian American/Asian Australian.
But my kids peers, in many many cases are marrying from outside their race or culture, and as it is a very liberal and inclusive community, I think the talk has very much influenced the walk.
“In other words, it looks like you are saying that Jewish people tend to be highly segregated (neighborhoods are either mostly Jewish or have very few Jewish people) in your metropolitan area, correct”
Correct. My younger daughter kindergarten class at the local public school was 100 percent made up of kids who had at least one Jewish parent. When I mentioned to another parent that ‘all the kids are Jewish” ( meaning being raised as Jewish) she questioned how that was possible. What about Molly Yang? ( yep mom Jewish, dad Asian) What about Claire Davis? (Yep mom Jewish, dad African American). Thats the kind of “diversity “ we had in the neighborhood.
My husband and I felt strongly that we wanted our kids raised in an area with a substantial number of other Jewish kids. This left us with a handful of communities to choose from in our metro area.
If there were areas where the Jewish population was not the majority, but was substantial enough that there was nothing unusual about being Jewish and religious and cultural activities were conveniently available, how desirable would you consider that situation compared to that of areas that were almost all Jewish or almost all not Jewish?
My D grew up in a predominantly white city, but in a diverse neighborhood in that city. We’ve since moved to an even more diverse neighborhood. As a result, she’s comfortable in any setting and her group of friends is always very diverse as is mine. She actually doesn’t feel comfortable in self-segregated circles. You have to walk the walk to pass it on to your kids.
Jewish segregation - I am Jewish and was raised in tow distinct scenarios, one where we were one of the only Jews in town and another that was approx 50% Jewish (my parents didn't specifically seek that out but it just so happened that this town had great schools, was a perfect commute on the train for my dad, right housing costs, etc. - I'm sure they did consider the demographics at some level). Very different experience as a kid. It was certainly "easier" living in the latter as I didn't have to explain my matzoh sandwich during Passover (my kids love those).
Diversity and values (perhaps driven by diversity) in general - We live in an affluent, primarily white area in the south. The next largest demographic is likely Indian / Asian and many are doctors and college professors. Lots of professionals. You get the picture. We CHOSE to send our kids to high school in very poor parts of town because of the specific schools (one is a performing arts magnet - best in the area for that, and the other is a public charter that was designed to give inner city kids a great path to college - and it's working with a 100% placement for several yrs now). Both schools are predominantly African American and Hispanic. Whites account for approx 20%. Both schools are 80% free lunch type places- again you get the picture. Although at first it was difficult to send them there, irrational and rational fear aplenty, it proved to be a great decision. Both kids are truly color blind, sexual orientation blind, etc. I think it makes them better people, although they have little tolerance or understanding of those from previous generations who seem to be set in their ways. We have conversations about the confederate flag, monuments, etc and they can't see the preserving history side but that likely has more to do with today's education system in general.
^ if that was referring to my post, it I think it’s pretty obvious (if not my post, please ignore). Heavy % of AA and Hispanic, different socioeconomic, etc. vs. majority white / upper middle class. Two completely different worlds, diverse from one another.
In my area these categories are not two
separate worlds. In my upper middle class neighborhood, my neighbors are Hispanic, Asian, Middle Eastern and Indian, and black.