Examples have been given in the past of classes at Berkeley where there are 700 in the course and the room ‘only’ holds 500, so the class is streamed, kids sit in the aisles, kids get to class very early just to get a seat - yet everyone loves it and they want to be in that class. Wouldn’t work for an acting class, wouldn’t work for a lab course.
At my daughter’s school (STEM) I don’t think there were any courses with over 50-60 in them because the classrooms weren’t designed that way. In my other daughter’s school, there were several freshman level courses that had 120-200 for lectures (with smaller recitation groups once per week), but all upper division courses were capped at 24.
Does class size make a difference? In some classes, I don’t think so. Does it matter if a math lecture is given to 20 or 100?
Another issues is whether the student can get into a course. If it is an LAC and only has one section of a course capped at 25, will the student ever get into the course? Neither of my kids had any trouble getting into a class. One would have if she had not been a theater major, as all spots in the theater classes were blocked until the majors had registered, and then if there were any open seats those were released, but that didn’t happen that often, especially for the lower level classes. The courses may have been capped at 35 or 40 but they’d let all theater/dance majors into the classes, so maybe 45, but they wouldn’t release seats until the size dropped to that 35 or 40.
Those kinds of classes are unicorns. Usually, students are enrolled in the giant lecture classes because they have to fulfill the prerequisites for their majors.
Being required to take a class is not necessarily inconsistent with being excited to take it. My kid is excited about his classes even though they are both large and required (I hear a lot of stuff like, “I can’t wait to take X, I heard that professor Z is teaching it next semester and she is amazing!”)
I don’t understand what is being asked. Big schools are going to have big lecture classes, and many freshmen and sophomores need to take them, either because they are required or because those are the classes open and available. Smaller schools are going to have fewer of the big lecture classes but may have a more limited selection of classes to take just because there are fewer students to fill classes.
That’s why a lot of people like the ‘sweet spot’ size for schools at about 5000-10000, but the trade off is often those schools are either non-flagship public schools or religious schools.
So Case has a great physics program and my DS thought it would be the place to go for him. We didn’t visit or show any demonstrated interest. He got in RD after being deferred in EA round. Even after $28k merit, the cost came in $20k more than other offers at privates. It broke our heart. He is at UCLA now. I will say that large universities will have a ton more to offer for physics that’s small LACs. And although freshman courses might be large, upper division physics is likely to be tiny. Lots of upper division ones are capped at 20-30 at UCLA. So I would look closely at schools.
You may all laugh at this, but I looked more seriously at Arizona and damn, they certainly are generous with merit scholarships! I might have to reconsider my absolutely no Arizona mindset after all. As I kept clicking on various guaranteed merit scholarships (for 4.0, Nat’l Merit, IB Diploma, etc.) it really seemed almost too good to be true.
although I just made the mistake of looking at the class of 2028 Instagram account, and yikes. Hopefully that is only a very specific subset of the types of students (trying to look hot, talking extensively about pledging and partying)
You are talking bout a large public school and an easy admit although you’d likely see similar at competitive schools.
That’s all of them. Funny tho - my daughter got on a page tho and saw that at U Tampa - 17th if her 17 admits and dumped it. She ended up at #16. The top public schools like UF she got into - same as you are seeing.
This won’t be your kid. If it is, she will struggle to succeed in physics or engineering.
But at any school, especially the large with so many less rigorous majors, yes the kids will live a bit. And try to act super cool on social media.
It’s college. Students want to look hot, party, and go Greek. Both ASU and U of Az have big time sports, big Greek villages, parties.
I think you’ll find the same thing at all the schools you originally listed as ‘interested in’ : Michigan, CU, Wisconsin, Berkeley, Washington, Illinois. Big time D1 football is going to lead to big parties. Usually those schools also have a Greek presence.
The smaller schools will also have parties but may take a different route (not big tailgates at some). Some of the schools are so big that they are going to have everything. Not everyone will join in, but you can find it if you want, or avoid it if you don’t.
Beautiful, partying greeks tend to post a lot on social media too.
I was sitting in a local coffee shop and and there were 3-4 students sitting behind me having the same conversation (partying etc). They all attended the same competitive, highly ranked college.
It happens everywhere. Regardless, I would spend time finding things that she likes, talking to people in the major etc rather than focusing on the negatives.
I would visit AZ and try and get to meet Honors, physics and theater kids especially. Maybe ask your admissions rep to set this up? That way she can meet kids more like her than the instagrammers and see if it really is a fit.
Yes, my kid goes to UCB and we noticed plenty of that partying / Greek stuff all over its social media, too. One wouldn’t think of UCB as a “party school” but there are partiers at every school, and party people love to post.
Give AZ a chance @UTmeritseeker, it’s a fantastic option for physics.
I live in Arizona and I never understood why anyone would live in Tucson—until my kid and her husband ended up at UAZ for grad school. They hike, camp, backpack, and could even ski if desired, within an hour of their house. They’ve taken classes and rented equipment from the university rec center for rock climbing. They go mountain biking and running a couple of minutes from their house and regularly see all kinds of wildlife (a badger the other day while out on an evening run). they’re 15 min from a National park. They eat at great restaurants all the time (seriously good food scene). Beautiful sunsets. And cooler weather than Phoenix, enough cooler to make a big difference. They have the D1 sports and a really good basketball team. It’s also an excellent university and the price is certainly great if you have the numbers for the big merit.
On the other hand you could say all of those things about the University of Utah. The difference is the higher ranking physics program, especially in astronomy related areas, but it’s unclear if there are more or fewer opportunities to participate in theater.
Case Western Reserve in Cleveland is excellent and great merit aid.
My daughters classmate started there as a Comp Sci/Musical Theatre Double Major.
There are 7 theatres in Cleveland at Playhouse Square. One of the largest theatre
Hubs in the US.
Agree-- Carnegie Mellon has their BXA program, which is an intercollegiate program with the X being a discipline other than the Arts, such as Humanities, Science, Comp Sci, etc. so you get to pursue two academic interests- one in a “creative” discipline and one in an “academic” discipline. It’s a very unique approach.
Here’s the link to the page on their website with information on the BXA program:
The 2 students I know who attend Arizona are very smart and academic. Both from OOS. Both gay, one white and one latino. Liberal, kind. Neither is into pledging or partying (though I will say that both of them DO look hot.)
Note that for the BXA program, concentrations in Drama are only available in Dramaturgy, Design, and Production Technology and Management - not Acting or Musical Theatre.
As I kept clicking on various guaranteed merit scholarships (for 4.0, Nat’l Merit, IB Diploma, etc.) it really seemed almost too good to be true.
It’s also an excellent university and the price is certainly great if you have the numbers for the big merit.