What should I put for race?

tokenadult · December 21, 2008, 4:32pm

You had better provide plenty of proof for this general statement, because I can think of counterexamples, including the late Gerald Tsai

<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/business/11tsai.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/business/11tsai.html</a>

(from an era when there were very few Chinese-Americans at all) and Vikram Pandit of Citi. One part of showing your work in making this statement believable would be showing what the expected base rate might be given the small percentage of the United States population that is Asian.

angryasianman · December 21, 2008, 5:13pm

"EVER WONDER WHY there are so few Asian Americans at the very highest levels of U.S. companies? It’s certainly not for lack of education. The Census Bureau reports that 44% of Americans of Asian heritage are college graduates, way above the average (27%) for the nation. True, their numbers are relatively small, making up just 4.4% of the workforce. But Asian Americans are the fastest-growing minority in the U.S., having increased by 72% since 1990, vs. just 13% for the U.S. population as a whole. Moreover, according to human resources managers and recruiters, plenty of entry-level hires are of Korean, Chinese, Taiwanese, and Japanese extraction. Yet except for a scattering of luminaries like Avon CEO Andrea Jung, Asians are weirdly absent from high places. Only 1% of corporate directors are Asian. Even in Silicon Valley, where about 30% of tech professionals or their forebears hail from Pacific Rim countries, Asian Americans account for only 12.5% of managers; 80% of tech bosses are Caucasian. "

[Piercing</a> the ‘bamboo ceiling’ - August 22, 2005](<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/08/22/8270002/index.htm]Piercing”>Piercing the 'bamboo ceiling' - August 22, 2005)

Jane Hyun believes that this is because Asians are taught to always “respect authority” and to work for the betterment of the community instead of themselves, but I completely disagree with her view because the view that Asians are “quiet and reserved” is completely stereotypical and… racist. I have met so many Asians who are outgoing and are not afraid to share their ideas yet are never offered leadership positions even though they persistently seek those positions.

"The survey found 25 percent of respondents harbor very negative attitudes and stereotypes toward Chinese Americans.

Twenty-three percent of respondents felt uncomfortable supporting an Asian American presidential candidate, compared to 15 percent for an African American, 14 percent for a woman and 11 percent for a Jew.

Twenty-four percent disapprove of intermarriage with an Asian American, second only to African Americans, while 7 percent wouldn’t want to work for an Asian American chief executive officer, compared to 4 percent who would not want to work for an African American, 3 percent for a woman and 4 percent for a Jew."

These are some statistics that may be contributing to the reason Asians are almost never put in leadership positions.

[Asian</a> Americans seen negatively / Results of landmark survey called startling, disheartening](<a href=“http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/27/MN199998.DTL]Asian”>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/27/MN199998.DTL)

tokenadult · December 21, 2008, 5:47pm

There is hearty approval in my family.

I read both the articles you kindly linked to. I’ve seen the survey results article from the San Francisco Chronicle before.

It really wasn’t so long ago that a lot of the things the articles say about Asian-Americans could have been said about Irish-Americans. Recently arrived immigrant groups have the most assimilating to do, and the Asian-American population in the United States, on average, is a lot more recently arrived than most European-Americans and nearly all black Americans.

But I still think you need to get out more. I live somewhere where, I am told by my Asian relatives and friends, there is very little of that kind of prejudice or barriers to job success. Consider the possibility that you can find and befriend people of all ethnic groups who will treat you fairly if you go looking for them.

Tyler09 · December 21, 2008, 6:03pm

once again, collegetry, your argument is a very VERY basic one, one that is based out of lack of understanding about the general subject. I suggest that if you are going to propagate such strong views that you at least research the subject. SURELY you don’t believe you are the first to come up with that idea and that nobody has ever responded to or studied it?

I am also surprised at the urgency with which we must move admissions to a “meritocracy” so that colleges can’t select as many minority students for their classes, instead of making efforts to advance equality in society in general, or at least the education system.

If all groups have the same opportunity for success in education, then all groups would achieve roughly the same, and whether or not schools had affirmative action would be irrelevant because it wouldn’t make a difference. I’m always saddened by the way high school students channel their anger into indignation that a very miniscule percent of students don’t go to their top choice school, instead of action to demand improvement in K-12 school systems.

raynebow757 · December 21, 2008, 6:10pm

“My point is that this is 2008, not 1968. Forty years ago, hate limited opportunities for people of color. That’s not true today.”

That’s a major flaw in your argument. The fact that it’s only been 40 or 50 years - a difference of one or two generations - since blacks have had equal access to certain arenas -education in this instance - is a major reason for the achievement gap. This continues to plague URM students to this day. If my grandparents were denied educational opportunities, their children, my parents, weren’t given proper guidance. And if they ended up not going to college because of this lack of guidance from both their parents and others, they’re most likely middle- to lower-class, which means that there are more opportunities for students in theory but financially - or in terms of knowledge about these programs - it’s just not possible.

Racism bred segregation; segregation bred inequality; integration attempted to repair that inequality; integration without further assistance led to a lower success rate for blacks in more difficult but better schools; those who were able to achieve higher than other students were provided an opportunity with affirmative action; affirmative action bred resentment; now that resentment is creating more racism. Racism still exists.

tajamariee · December 21, 2008, 6:18pm

I’m half white and half latina/native American. I don’t quite understand how to use this to my advantage on college applications.

Although all of my applications are done and filled out accordingly, I just want to know what the admission staff will conclude by my race.

tokenadult · December 21, 2008, 6:39pm

Hi, raynebow757,

So to break the vicious cycle mentioned in your last paragraph, do you agree with the idea of

a) colleges doing targeted recruiting of persons who don’t have family connections to the colleges (something I have always approved of),

b) colleges giving extra consideration in admissions decisions to students from non-college-graduate families and low-income families (a policy I approve of that is strong supported by most Americans)

while

c) not inquiring about student race or ethnicity, the better to make sure students become less race-conscious?

That last point is based on a suggestion that was made a few posts ago, that if we want people to be less racist, the better path to take is for all of us to be less race-conscious. Do you agree?

Godfatherbob · December 21, 2008, 7:50pm

Well they’ll consider you a URM (under-represented minority), and be more inclined to accept your application. In my experience this helps especially in regards to standardized test scores. It’s an incredible oversimplification, but you with a, say, 1700 SAT score will be as likely to get in as a White applicant with, say, a 1900 (or an Asian applicant with a 2000–depends on the school with that one, though).

TarHeelBound · December 21, 2008, 7:53pm

I hate affirmative action

tajamariee · December 21, 2008, 7:59pm

So, they don’t look at it negatively? It’ll (mostly) always be positive?

tokenadult · December 21, 2008, 8:04pm

In general, once you’ve indicated “latina/native American,” as you said you did, the college admission staff will treat your application as that of an “underrepresented minority.” That will usually have a positive impact on your application. Since you have already applied, I guess you’ll know your results soon enough. Best wishes while you wait for results.

tomjonesistheman · December 21, 2008, 8:10pm

^so if someone is asian, which is clearly proven by their last name, and they still put “unknown” on their apps, would college admissions officers assume that the person is asian?

tokenadult · December 21, 2008, 8:13pm

See [post</a> #5](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061012043-post5.html]post”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061012043-post5.html) and [post</a> #4](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061012037-post4.html]post”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061012037-post4.html).

Short answer: colleges don’t guess. They are required to ask, but students are not required to tell, and thus colleges are permitted to report students to the federal government as “race/ethnicity unknown” and many colleges report many students that way.

raynebow757 · December 21, 2008, 8:19pm

Token, I agree with your suggestion simply because of the fact that socioeconomic status is a better factor to be considered in affirmative action practices than race; the trials of African-Americans is something that I can better relate to than other races, but that doesn’t mean that other races have in some way been oppressed. I also believe that legacy status should lend no advantage to those who are not qualified or give the extra “push” to otherwise average applicants. Not asking about race on the application is also a step forward, but if it’s not race it will probably be something else - like classism. I also don’t think becoming a less race-conscious society is necessarily a good thing, but being respective of the culture, contributions, and achievement is more important.

tomjonesistheman · December 21, 2008, 8:22pm

^ok yea, I see. But my real question is, if one were associated with the asian race, but put “race unknown” on his or her apps, would one necessarily have a better chance in getting accepted (such as Harvard or Yale), since people of the asian race would be more competitive?

UHSdebater · December 21, 2008, 8:57pm

Quote from oldcollegetry:

“Today, blacks and Hispanics limit themselves. I can only speak on what I see every day, and the URMs in my school don’t do as well as Asians and whites in my school only because they don’t try hard enough. Hate and prejudice have nothing to do with it. In their culture, doing well academically is looked down on.”

How can any culture look down on good academic performance? This is utterly ridiculous and ignorant, to be frank. As a Hispanic, I can assure you that is not the case now and has never been the case.

Differences come from the way we’re brought up. I’m sure some Hispanics might struggle or be less self-motivated than others because there is not as much guidance at home. Their parents may be working two jobs each to make ends meet. But since this situation is not unique to any one race or ethnicity; it goes back to the socioeconomic argument.

People who limit theirselves come from every background. If the only basis for your argument comes from one school, it is better for you not to say it than appear very narrow-minded.

Keilexandra · December 21, 2008, 9:39pm

If indeed this is true, I do not see how socioeconomic affirmative action would hurt these students. Yes, it would benefit whites and Asians as well as URMs; maybe it would benefit these other groups more, who knows. But it is fair across the board to low-income students who have fewer opportunities.

Affirmative action, as you argue it, is also in part compensation for past inequality. Then I ask you: is it fair to exact such a price from the current generation, who has not committed such injustices? America is an immigrant nation, with new immigrants every day, including Asian families like my own and, say, a Peruvian (Latin@) family with a Ph.D and a tenured university position. Is this latter family entitled to a boost in college admissions simply because of ethnicity? (For the record, the family in question has always had a higher income than my family, which began below the poverty line.) Targeting race, which can NEVER be changed (unlike even income level), is fundamentally discriminatory. Though whether this discrimination is justified, is still up for debate.

Student92 · December 21, 2008, 9:56pm

AA defiantly has it’s faults. There’s no doubt that by percentages URM’s end up poorer schools and with a worse education as a whole. In the end though, my guess is that the “URM spots” at every school goes to a URM who grew up with excellent schooling, and by relation, probably a pretty sound economic backing.

tokenadult · December 21, 2008, 10:43pm

The socioeconomic level of students currently admitted to college compared to the socioeconomic level of students applying to and NOT admitted to the same colleges is definitely an issue that needs to be studied more.

angryasianman · December 21, 2008, 11:22pm

I love how Asians are punished for being more “competitive” and having “higher scores” because of the complete bs reason that top colleges don’t want too many Asians. Even if there are Asians who are barely middle class (less than 60,000 bucks a year income) like me who really should be benefitting from affirmative action.

What should I put for race?

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