<p>Assume for a minute that you have a child named Zeuss. Zeuss has perfect grades, nearly-perfect test scores, and is an all-around great kid. It is time to send Zeuss off to college and he has no idea what he wants to study or what he wishes to be when he grows up. There is a chance Zeuss could ultimately wish to receive an MBA or law degree, but even that is unclear. You have a lifetime budget of $150,000 for Zeuss higher education. You can:</p>
<p>A) Send Zeuss off to a top 10 national university. Zeuss will hobnob for four years with the best and brightest; he will have to work many hours at whichever job pays most each summer in order to help pay the college bills, and he will graduate with $30,000 or so in student loan debt. Zeuss will have his degree from a top 10 school, and extremely strong prospects for a first job, but no remaining college funds;</p>
<p>B) Send Zeuss off to a top 50 university. Zeuss will hobnob for four years with people who might be slightly less brilliant than he is; he will get a bit of financial aid due to his otherworldly statistics; because of this he will be able to pursue summer employment more strategically; and he will graduate with exactly zero left for college. Zeuss will have his degree from a top 50 school, good prospects for a first job, no remaining college funds, but also no debt;</p>
<p>C) Send Zeuss off on a nearly full-ride scholarship to the honors program of a top 100 university. Zeuss will definitely be associating with mere mortals, but will be a top student. Zeuss will be able to afford to study abroad each summer, and can either volunteer or work when needed; Zeuss will graduate with $120,000 left in his college account; Zeuss will have his degree from a top 100 school, average prospects for a first job, and enough money left over to largely or fully pay for a top MBA, law, or other graduate program.</p>
<p>Zeuss is overwhelmed by this momentous decision and has asked you, as his loving parent, to make it on his behalf. Having only this information, which path would you choose for our young hero, and why?</p>
<p>Choose option “C”, with the hopes that Zeuss is so impressive That his professors and other contacts at said Top 100 University that he gets some incredible internships where he gets to make contacts in the ‘real’ world and he goes on to be an incredible success.</p>
<p>There will be many, many students with Z’s credentials, or better, populating state flagship U’s honors programs. He is no better than many “gifted” kids who end up at heir public U.</p>
<p>I would send Zuess to the school where he is likely to have the best experience–to grow personally and academically. Not knowing Zuess, it is hard to say which school would be best for Zuess’s personal and academic development. Does Zuess thrive on challenge or become overwhelmed? </p>
<p>I personally would not worry much about how much money would be left to finance Zuess’s graduate studies. Too speculative at this point. if Zuess is a science major, many grad programs will pay him to get his Ph.D. If Zuess goes to a top law or MBA program, he will likely get some aid and also be likely to be able to land a job with a salary that would justify a lot of loans.</p>
<p>The ideal, I think, is somewhere between B and C – but it only works if you live in a state with a world-class state university. You get a “B” level education at nearly “C” level prices.</p>
<p>However, not everybody lives in California or Virginia.</p>
<p>Another option: At any of the colleges under consideration, would it be possible for Zeuss to graduate in fewer than eight semesters? Completing college in six or seven semesters substantially decreases the cost of completing a degree. It might enable Zeuss to attend a “B” level university but still have the freedom to pursue the activities of greatest interest to him (or of greatest benefit to his future career) in the summers.</p>
<p>Yet another option: Would Zeuss be interested in an undergraduate business major? Today’s business programs are not the academic ghettos of yesteryear. They would prepare Zeuss for the business world almost as well as an MBA program would, and they in no way preclude the choice of going to law school. If Zeuss majored in business and then decided to pursue a business career, he would probably not need to spend the money on an MBA. If he decided to pursue a career in law, he would be no worse off with the business major than with any other. If Zeuss chooses this major, then he might be willing to choose B over C or A over B because the financial disadvantage of the more prestigious schools decreases.</p>
<p>What I’m trying to get at here is that it’s not as easy as A, B, C. Thinking just a little bit outside the box might lead to some other possibilities.</p>
<p>Well, My “Zuess” is one of those lucky, brilliant students awarded a full tuition scholarship 3 years ago at a “top 25”[ based on recent USNW reports] U. He was also accepted at 2 Ivys and 12 other top 50 colleges. At his top 25 U he has found many, many equally smart students, and is thriving and happy. And to not have any debt and still have $$ in the bank for grad school is a big relief for all of us. You may want to check out this 2007 chart showing where NMF students end up enrolling. Lots of smart students go to “less prestigious” colleges and end up doing just fine.</p>
<p>Zeuss, remember that there’s not a lot of difference between B and C when it comes to jobs. After the first job, most employers aren’t that interested in where you went to school unless it’s an Ivy.</p>
<p>And for those who envy the California school system, it still costs about 25K (with room and board) to send an in-state student to a UC. Not exactly cheap.</p>
<p>I’m also not worried about Zeus’ graduate education; kids who do well in college can find ways to get their graduate education paid for! I’m more concerned with the 4 years of growth and change and helping my kid be in a place surrounded by optimal resources and great people… So I guess I’d say that it depends. If I had had that amount of money ($120,000) IN THE BANK, I might have tried to persuade DD or DS to pick the free-ride and I would have kept the money ( LOL), but I’ve been paying it out in dribs and drabs so the total sum doesn’t hit me in the face. So I’d probably vote for C or A. Or B.</p>
<p>Is this about getting Zeuss a job, or preparing him for a lifetime of interests, passions and achievement? The former doesn’t necessarily get you the latter, but the latter typically leads as well to the former. The undergraduate experience is where adolescents turn into young adults. People get grad assistantships for graduate school. I wouldn’t shortchange the undergrad experience, and I’d make significant sacrifices to have it be as full and robust as it can be.</p>
<p>I’d blow the budget on a top LAC. To me that’s the best place for a gifted kid who doesn’t know what he wants.</p>
<p>Since he gets great grades and tests well, if he still wants business or law school it will in all probability be a top one. It’s OK to borrow for top professional schools, most do. If he wants other types of grad school, good chance it will be free or low cost.</p>
<p>The difference between the “top 50” University at full pay and the “top 100” U with a full ride is a no-brainer. Rankings are an inexact science and say nothing about what’s best for Zeus. Does the top 100 scholarship come with extra advising, early class registration, etc? All the more reason to take the money and run. Zues will find plenty of brainy peers at either school.</p>
<p>No where do you say that Zeuss would take advantage of all the differences between A and C. I know lots of students who have similar credentials as Zeuss who still want the more typical big U experience or who aren’t interested in seminar type classes and hobnobbing only with similarly intellectually peers.</p>
<p>How motivated is he? Will he be the kid who graduates with a History degree from a LAC and be the type to figure out how to use it – if he isn’t interested in graduate school or at least not right away? </p>
<p>There are also kids out there who work hard for those Stats in high school and then have no desire to work that hard in College. </p>
<p>You also assume that there will be jobs that pay enough to make a difference in the Summer. In my part of the world, that isn’t true right now and I guess it depends on your perspective as to when things will get better employment wise.</p>
<p>My husband and I went to State Us and both graduated and worked for (then) Big 8 consulting firms. Entering at exactly the same salaries and job levels were plenty of Ivy League graduates. I left after a few years (I couldn’t stand it) but my DH was many of these same people’s boss before long. I happen to think the job thing is overrated, unless Wall Street is your goal.</p>
<p>That may be true, but the way I interpret that chart, it really argues for Option A, or Option B, or a small LAC. There are thousands of colleges and universities in the USA.<br>
This chart does not show a random sample of them, it is disproportionately filled with Ivies and other “more prestigious” colleges. There are underlying reasons for that prestige. These schools try very hard to satisfy the special needs of the kinds of kids they admit. </p>
<p>Make no mistake, exceptionally bright kids do have special needs. Just as you would not expect an autistic or sense-impaired child to thrive in a classroom designed for “normal” children, we should not expect “gifted” students to thrive in that classroom, even if they seem to do well there by the measures we apply to everyone else. </p>
<p>Exceptionally bright kids not necessarily motivated by the same financial and career incentives that drive their parents. That may be why Zeuss cannot figure out what he wants for a future, and is just mouthing a standard parent-pleasing answer like “law school”. These kids have a higher-than-average level of curiosity and aptitude for problem-solving. The best schools cultivate those qualities. They are not, primarily, focused on career preparation. Half of the entering class may say, at the beginning, that they plan to be doctors and lawyers. At the end of 4 years, a significant number peel off to become something (biochemist, anthropologist, neuro-scientist, foreign correspondent) that they may never have imagined for themselves. Their careers do bring financial rewards, but they also bring other rewards that are even more important to a certain kind of person.</p>
<p>If Zeuss can take advantage of the kind of environment a particular school offers, then the primary consideration should not be the size of his bank account at the end of 4 years. However, there are significant differences among “prestigious” schools. These differences need to be explored if Zeuss is to wind up at the kind of place that best fits his personality and interests. A smart kid who enjoys no-holds-barred debate could thrive at the University of Chicago. A shy, sensitive person might do better at a small Liberal Arts College known for a high level of caring, personal attention such as Macalester. A bright outgoing student who really is very career-oriented, and who does not perceive himself as an intellectual, might fit well in a flagship public university.</p>
<p>It depends on Zeus’ lifetime income prospects. Engineering? any of the three will do. Artist? option C and save the rest for a small house and studio.</p>
<p>Apollo (not quite the master of the univese as Zeus) chose C. Don’t over-estimate this whole associating with all the geniuses thing. He’ll find plenty of bright, great lids in the honors program.</p>
<p>^^^ “Don’t over-estimate this whole associating with all the geniuses thing. He’ll find plenty of bright, great kids in the honors program.”</p>
<p>It’s not a matter of associating with a cluster of bright people. The question is whether the student is entering a culture and a community in which passion, curiosity, and intellectual enthusiasm are the norm as opposed to a subculture. All of our kids were probably among the stars of their HS classes, and all of them knew and associated with other bright kids. But unless they went to a very special HS, the cultures of their schools probably did not revolve around a norm of constant discovery and discussion.</p>
<p>Consider a musical analogy - if your student is a serious, talented musician, they can go to a typical school and find a limited number of other serious musicians, all of whom would be comprise an island of musical dedication within a larger campus culture that didn’t share that passion. How different would it be to be immersed in a culture in which everyone shared that passion; in which everyone woke up enthusiastic about the opportunities to explore that they would have that day; in which casual conversations and meals in the dining hall included sharing of ideas and blending of different approaches from different genres, so that the participants couldn’t wait to get back to their instruments to try out the new ideas they heard?</p>
<p>I have a D who’s a junior at an “Option A” university. At the end of her freshman year, I asked her how she felt about her experience. She said “If you’d asked me a year ago whether I wanted to wrk this hard, I’d have said ‘heck no,’ but when you’re here it doesn’t seem like work at all. It’s what everyone does and what everyone expects of each other, and it just seems like the normal way to be.”</p>
<p>What she’s getting is defining her identity as an adult and will shape the rest of her life - not just her career, but the way that she approaches interests, recreations, child-rearing, etc. It wouldn’t likely happen in grad school - that’s not what grad school is about; that’s not typically what it’s for.</p>
<p>One thing I would never do is make the decision for Zuess. Kids need to understand the financial implications of their decision and then they need to make the decision alone. It is an important step in becoming an adult who is ready to attend college away from home and parents.</p>