What to do about mom...Need help/advice. Very long

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I am posting here because I was searching the Internet and found where someone else had asked a somewhat similar question. I have looked at College Confidential before and know that this is a community of parents who care about their children’s education and you guys probably give good advice. I’m sorry this post is so long, but I truly appreciate any insight any of you can give me.</p>

<p>A bit of background info: My mother is messed up, to say the least. She was verbally and emotionally abusive when we were growing up and never managed her money. We do not and have not ever had a good relationship, but she puts on a show for other people. My two siblings and I are now grown, have jobs, and manage our own lives well. I am the oldest. I’m 27 & a teacher. My mother was also a teacher until she had a stroke in 2012 and had to retire early. She became very depressed (although she has dealt with depression for almost my entire life) and stayed in a mental facility for a week. She has a therapist who seems to just tell her what she wants to hear, and she draws both a retirement check and a disability check for a total of $2800/month (which is more than what I bring home after taxes). She has been going downhill. This summer she lost the house we grew up in because she did not pay the mortgage payment for 6 months. The month she found out it was foreclosing, she got five tattoos (she only had one before) and bought two season football tickets to her alma mater (not a cheap expense). This is not unusual. She has now moved to an apartment, where she owes $1200 rent because she hasn’t paid in the past three months. She received an eviction notice last week. She is ALWAYS asking for money. We try to not enable her by giving her any, but we do cave and buy her medicine and groceries often. Last week her hairdresser gave her money for her medicine because my mom gave a sob story about how she couldn’t afford it.</p>

<p>My siblings and I do not know what to do. We have approached her therapist asking to make an appt. to talk to her, but the therapist told my mom about it before we met with her even after the therapist told us it would be confidential as we talked over the phone. My aunt contacted my mom’s psychiatrist who then told my mom that he knew she wasn’t really that suicidal or he would know about it. We aren’t sure where to go from here. My mom is mean to us, but we know she needs help and we don’t know what we can do to get her money straightened out so that she doesn’t also get kicked out of her apt. We are sure there is something mentally wrong with her besides Major Depression Disorder. We think possibly Borderline Personality Disorder or Bipolar Disorder.</p>

<p>This afternoon I typed out the following message out of anger and frustration (even though I know I won’t ever send it to her). It came after an exchange about her “falling through the cracks” for being eligible for food stamps and us not caring enough to buy her soup and medicine because she doesn’t feel well (I live 3 ½ hrs away). It gives a glimpse into what we are dealing with. Has anyone dealt with anything similar and have advice into what steps we could/should take? Anybody know what our rights are to talk to her doctors, get power of attorney, etc.?</p>

<p>~~~~~</p>

<p>Mom, you need help we cannot give you. It’s not that we don’t have the time or $2 to buy you some cold medicine. What we do and give is never and will never be enough. Brother takes your dogs out (over and over and over), we buy you food/groceries and medicine. We got your mail and gave you Saline solution and brought you cereal just in the past 3 days. We’ve paid to have your paperwork notarized and sent off. Sister has paid your power bill & paid to keep your phone on one more month. You owe me $300+ for a hotel room you didn’t need because the guy you had only met once didn’t want to stay at my house for FREE. You owe Brother tons of money, and I don’t even know how many checks you have written me over the years that I have never been able to cash because I knew you didn’t have it.</p>

<p>You may not realize it, but you bring home hundreds of dollars more every month than I do. The amount deposited in my account each month is $2539.26 and it’s plenty. I live modestly. I save. My first year teaching, when my check was split 13 ways instead of 12, I brought home $1800/month. My rent in PXXXXXX was $500/month. I was fine. I’ve paid over $500 in unexpected dental costs (a root canal and two crowns) in the past two months, and I was fine. I didn’t go broke overnight. What you owe me for one night at a hotel is more than what I paid to go to California or New York or Niagara Falls. None of those trips (meaning the entire time I was gone & everything I did while I was there, including Broadway plays & food) cost more than $300. I eat cereal and soup and tuna and sandwiches, and it’s not a big deal to me. I pay my bills on time and I don’t buy things I can’t afford. You aren’t eligible for food stamps because you make OVER TWICE the requirements. You haven’t fallen through any cracks—you don’t need them. You do not try to manage your money. Let someone, anyone, have control of your money for three months and they could straighten it out and get you caught up. Your bills would be paid, your medicine would be paid for, and you would have food & the dogs would have food. You could pay someone to take the dogs out. You won’t do that though because you refuse to believe that the amount you make is enough. If it’s really not enough, let someone try. At this point, it can’t get any worse. I know part of it is that you hate giving up that control, but your life could be so much easier for you if you got your money straightened out.</p>

<p>I know you will read this and be mad (if you even read the whole thing), but the truth is you do not appreciate or acknowledge what we do for you. You can be mad, but when you go to Dr. XXXXXX, show him this message. Explain that you bring home $2800/month (or $1600/month the past three months since you haven’t been getting the other check) and that you haven’t paid for your rent, your health insurance, your medicine, your phone bill, your power bill, or your groceries in the past month. Explain that while you are being threatened to be evicted from your apartment this week, you are still looking for more furniture to buy. Explain that because you can’t pay for your medicine, you take wrong doses and skip it and stay up all night and sleep all day. Explain to him how I am misconstruing everything in this message if you want to, but please listen to what he has to say. Your life does not have to be like this, but we cannot fix it for you. We do not have the authority to do anything and you do not listen to us, which is fine, but please listen to your doctor. We hate to see you like this. We hate that you are miserable, but it isn’t us doing it to you.


&lt;p&gt;Thank you all.&lt;/p&gt;
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<p>I strongly recommmend that you see a therapist yourself to help you draw the lines and figure out how far you should go to help her. This will provide you with the support you need. I am sorry you are in this difficult situation.</p>

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<p>TeacherGal - I am sorry about your mom and this stressful situation. I have no experience with this, so I am sure other posters will be able to offer better advice. Is there a social service agency that is helping her? If she is receiving $2800 a month, she should be able to pay her own rent and buy her own groceries. I think you and your siblings need to make a decision together. How much are you willing to do for her? How long are you willing to do it? </p>

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<p>I agree that you and your siblings should look for some affordable therapy options for yourselves. It’s tough dealing with someone who is unreasonable==in fact, you cannot. they won’t cooperate.</p>

<p>Your letter, IMO is too long and detailed. Basically, tell her you live on less than what she gets, and that you cannot help her out financially, and that she owes you money you could use. You could offer to help her manage her money for a period of time to get her out of her problems. I agree with hrh that you and your siblings need to make the decision together as to how much you will do for her.</p>

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<p>anxiousmom- I saw a therapist when I was in college to deal with some of the aftermath of living in a dysfunctional house for all those years. It was helpful to just hear someone say that it sounded like I was okay & I wouldn’t turn into my mom just because she is my mom. I hadn’t thought about going back to discuss this new(er) situation, and it is something I will definitely consider.</p>

<p>hrh19- I think all she receives each month is her disability check and retirement check. She hasn’t gotten her disability check the last few months because they say they didn’t receive some paperwork a few months ago. She re-sent it before Thanksgiving & once that goes through, she should get backpay. In the meantime, she has still been getting $1600 each month. We know she has enough to pay her rent and bills, which just makes it more frustrating. :S My siblings and I just kinda take it one situation at a time. My brother lives near her and is so fed up that he is much more firm with her than my sister and I are. </p>

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<p>DH’s mother suffered small strokes and the big indicator when they were just starting was that she stopped taking care of money. She had raised a large family on a blue collar salary and the sudden money issues were the big red flag. Your mom needs a complete neuro evaluation and may need to have someone manage money for her if the strokes are cumulating. You may need legal assistance. </p>

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<p>My siblings and I had to wrestle with getting my mom into assisted living facility over the last year. It is so hard to convince a parent that they need help. We had to physically steal her car to keep her from driving. (She has dementia.) What saved us was that my parents had authorized my brother as Power of Attorney years ago.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, before we could convince mom to agree to move, she fell and broke her hip and leg. At that point, mom was out of the decision making process and we took over all her responsibilities. She is improving in assisted living, taking her medications regularly, eating healthy meals, interacting with staff and residents, etc.</p>

<p>She is still not happy all the time, but we deal with each issue as it arises.</p>

<p>I encourage you to seek out senior citizen advocacy groups in your state that can help you determine what you are going to be able to do legally to help your mom. It is possible that you can take your mom to court and have her declared incompetent. This is a really gut wrenching option, but if you don’t have any signed documents giving you authority to act on her behalf, then you might consider it.</p>

<p>I suggest you present a united front with all siblings discussing and agreeing on the next step. You could tell your mom you will help her out of her current financial jam only if she authorizes one of you as Power of Attorney. It seems that getting control over her spending and not allowing bills to go unpaid will take care of a lot of the frustration.</p>

<p>There is no easy answer here. Sending Hugs your way!</p>

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<p>except that the OP’s mom may not be a senior. OP is 27, the mom may still be in her late 40’s or early 50’s… senior citizen places may or may not help much. Though maybe they could point the OP in the right direction, even if they can’t help.</p>

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<p>Do not ever list what you make to you mother. She may have periods of clarity where she will use that against you. </p>

<p>Do contact the elder care services department in your town, they Amy be able to refer you to the appropriate agency.</p>

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<p>Your mom probably has some brain damage as a result of her stroke(s), which may account for some of the odder behavior (tattoos, season tickets, failure to pay mortgage, etc.)
I agree that you should unite with your sibs and tell her that you’ve all observed that she is no longer able to manage her finances. Tell her that your brother (or chosen person) will now take over her banking/bill-paying to make sure it gets done. Do not give her options. Do not ask her if she will agree to it, or if she wants this. Tell her that it will be done for her. Tell her that this is the best help you are able to give her now, and that having someone else in charge of finances will help solve all her other problems of not getting food or medicine on time, getting evicted, etc. Be as brief/matter-of-fact as possible. Do not go into past debts she owes you. If she refuses and continues to ask for money, say no, that you make less than she does, and don’t have it to give, period. But you/sibs will help her manage her finances, and help her pay her own bills with her own money. </p>

<p>I am surprised her doctor/ therapist isn’t helping with this. She should have a neuro evaluation, and you or one of your sibs needs to talk to the doctor about her situation. Would your mom allow your brother/sister to go to the doctor/therapist with her–because she needs assistance due to her disability. They can’t share info. with you unless they have permission, but you or your sibs can give them info. about her behavior that might be helpful. Some clinics have their own social workers, which might be a good resource for you. I agree you and your sibs might need legal advice. I am sorry you have to deal with this. (We have family members with mental illness, strokes/behavior changes).</p>

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<p>I know you won’t really send that angry message. That will not help. You can’t lecture someone who isn’t thinking rationally about money. But you need to have a factual (not emotional) discussion about where her money is going. </p>

<p>If she is not paying her bills now,and she always did before, she is experiencing some mental impairment. Singersmom has it right. This is a red flag. It could be as simple as an infection, which often presents itself as confusion and forgetfulness (instead of pain) in the elderly. Take her to the doctor first to rule out infection. That is imperative. (I’ve already been a caregiver). </p>

<p>You and your sibs should show up, and have lunch with her or something, and then tell her you are going to take over the bills, “just until you are feeling better, Mom”? This will be a lot harder without a good relationship, but your only alternative is (eventually) legal action to gain guardianship of her if she refuses to cooperate with you and designate you her Health Care POA (and I got a general POA for my parent, but we were very close and she totally trusted me). Just get the POA paperwork prepared and present it to her, telling her you need her to “sign this” so you are able to legally do things for her. Will your aunt stand with you on this? Does she recognize that Mom is suddenly not paying her bills? Also, do not throw around diagnoses; you are not privy to that information, nor qualified to make that call- again, it might be brain damage from the stroke, but it could be infection! As simple as a UTI! </p>

<p>She needs to perceive this as coming from a desire to help her, not out of resentment for past failures. Those don’t matter now; she can’t remember them anyway! </p>

<p>If Mom doesn’t cooperate, you are going to have to initiate guardianship proceedings. Contact an attorney knowledgeable in that area. It is best if she perceives you as trying to help her after her stroke, and cooperates, of course. </p>

<p>I don’t think you need therapy for this. You and your siblings need to figure out the best way to approach how to solve this problem. It’s a tough one in your twenties. I was a lot older when I had to do it all, and had very young children also, but at least I had cooperation. </p>

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<p>The OP’s mother is not elderly. The OP is 27, and she is the oldest of her siblings. That makes her mother around the age of the most of the posters in the parents forum. She’s our age, not our parents’ age.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your replies. </p>

<p>Just to clear up some questions: Like Cardinal Fang guessed, my mother is not elderly. She is 53 so not a senior, which makes it a bit harder. She does have some physical problems from the stroke, but her behavior is nothing new. She has ALWAYS been terrible with money. I remember our house almost foreclosing three times as I was growing up, but each time my grandparents (who are now in their mid-80’s) or my dad (her ex-husband whom she hates) paid it because us kids were living there also. She always said my dad didn’t pay enough child support and that’s why we were poor, but she always had manicures, went to the tanning bed daily, etc. </p>

<p>My mother is also very intelligent. She has her Master’s degree and knows how to act “normal” in front of others. She is good at twisting words and making it seem like she is the victim, like we are terrible children who don’t care about her, etc. She always has excuses, and I feel like she comes across as rational to other people. It’s difficult for them to see the whole picture because they only see her side, and I guess out of respect (well, something like that) we don’t call her out in front of others. Actually we don’t even call her out in private very much because it doesn’t make a difference and only makes her mad. The reason I said Borderline or Bipolar is just because of her VERY extreme mood swings (rage & depression, impulsivity, reckless actions). We don’t know anything for sure of course, but it’s a guess based on personal experience with her and lots of research as to why she would act the way she does.</p>

<p>She has specifically told us that she will not give us the power of attorney because we are selfish, cruel, cold-hearted, etc. She has no real friends, so she relies on us for everything but in all honesty, we hate being around her. She curses at us, yells at us, tells us how terrible we are. She is really a toxic person, so as a young adult (until her stroke) I was really just working on having appropriate boundaries in place (saying I had to go when she started yelling, not giving her money, etc.). Now because of the stroke, I guess the circumstances have changed some but it’s still difficult for us to be sympathetic. I know she isn’t in her right mind, but anything we say that even hints at giving someone else control of her money makes her hate us more.</p>

<p>My brother is going to talk to the landlord of the apartment tomorrow to see what exactly the timeline is on the eviction. Thank you all again for “listening.” :)</p>

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<p>Elder services can refer to other Mental health agencies that serve her age group.</p>

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<p>Wow, what a challenging situation.</p>

<p>It sounds like your mother is emotionally blackmailing you. It would be nice if people changed, or responded to kindness, but unfortunately some are too self-absorbed for anyone else.</p>

<p>This will sound harsh, but for your own sake, you might want to cut her off. Write a short letter saying that you love her, but contact with her is hurtful, and in the interest of your own health you will not have any more contact with her at all. You will not answer the phone when she calls, or open any letters she sends. </p>

<p>You’ll be the bad guy, but in a strange way, she might respect you for this show of strength. Either way, she will be forced to stop blaming others and make her own way.</p>

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<p>I’m afraid I have to agree with @Mindfully‌ . From what you describe, not only has she been like this all her life, but she is a toxic and hateful mother. It’s easy to say that, I know, when I’m not in your shoes. It would be easier to do that with a sibling…which I have, than with a parent. I think this needs to be a group sibling thing…where you come together and approach her. You could you some guidance from a professional that deals with mental disorders…because she has one. A group has more strength and if she sees she is going to be cut off from everyone if she doesn’t hand over sign some legal documents, then she might change her tune. It’s worth a shot, but you will have to be strong and stick to it. I’m so sorry you are going through this. It’s damaging to all of your health and well being.</p>

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<p>The details you have added to your story create an even more impossible scenario. Siblings Unite! That is the only way you can make it through this. And some kind of advising from an outside source, either therapist type or social services agency. </p>

<p>Despite your mom’s age, you can still speak with and learn from the senior agencies in your state. You can call the office and ask questions, and they probably know the laws and the ages involved. Who knows, maybe the senior services are available to seniors starting at age 50??</p>

<p>I suggest you present a united front to your mom, and get your aunt on board with this as well to make it more effective. Let her know you are done “helping out” unless she signs the POA. Let her experience some natural consequences of her behavior.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t try to decide if you are done with her forever right now. That is too much pressure during this stressful time. But if siblings can agree “no help for 30 days” and then reevaluate, you can show tough love and wait for her to give in and sign the POA. (Of course, don’t tell Mom you might change your mind after a month, she will just wait you out and still expect your help.)</p>

<p>She needs to see that NO ONE in her family is going to come to her rescue while she is in such a self-destructive mode. It very well could be that she has physical/mental issues that are contributing to her decline, but you need POA OR guardianship from the court to get her a full physical and mental checkup.</p>

<p>And yes, a simple Urinary Tract Infection left untreated can drive her mad. </p>

<p>Go ahead and research what it takes to gain guardianship, but if she is as crafty as you say, you will have to work hard to document her inability to care for herself. Assume that she will rise to the occasion in court to act as rational as a normal person. Facts, copies of overdue bills, eviction notices, photographs of her living conditions, etc. are the ammunition you need to gather. And, once you research the process of gaining guardianship, you will know the benchmarks the court will be looking for, and you can at least be gathering information for a future court action.</p>

<p>Side note…I have had success faxing notes about my mom’s declining condition to her physician. Of course, he can’t discuss her case with me, but when my brother took her to see this doctor, my brother noted that the doctor went point by point down my letter and asked mom about all the issues I brought up. He has known my mom for years and she trusts him, so it was helpful to have him more aware of her real situation.</p>

<p>If the FULL ON refusal to help can’t be agreed upon by all siblings, then agree to PAY FOR ACTION. Mom wants XXX help, require her to get a physical that also checks for a UTI. Make it a condition that a family member accompany her to this doctor, or she will just lie and say she went, or lie about what the results are. “Mom if you want THIS, then you will have to THAT.”</p>

<p>Tough, tough situation, and I can understand if all siblings choose to walk away. But because you are all decent people, it may torture you too much to walk away, and if you cave in after declaring you are done with her, then she knows you will always rescue her. She needs to feel the emptyness, needs to hit rock bottom. Maybe seeing all her belongings on the curb with no place to lay her head is what it will take to encourage her to change her ways.</p>

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<p>Another note, I worked with an elderly woman who didn’t want her kids involved in her finances, but she realized at age 83 that she probably needed some oversight. So she hired an accountant type person to work with her each month to actually write out her checks and make sure all her bills got paid.</p>

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<p>Personally, I would cut off all contact. Not sure if you or your siblings are ready to do that. </p>