What would you do to reform the public education system?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I hope that this is an acceptable question on CC, but in any event, I would like to know everyone’s opinions, including students. </p>

<p>have a massive project due on march 22 in which I am creating a national school reform…</p>

<p>I’ve gone waist deep into it and I would like to know some outside opinions on what they would do, regarding absolutely anything in the public school system, such as:</p>

<p>diversity
taxes
busing
NCLB
homeschooling
virtual academies
vocational schools
elective emphasis
after school programs
segregation
merit consideration
a nationalized grading system
a nationalized curriculum
etc…</p>

<p>I’d like to hear what you have to say!</p>

2

<p>I think if I could do a single thing I would get rid of age based education all together and group kids by what they know. Something more on the order of the one room classroom but with more technology and facilitators that could help in different areas. Ideally it would operate a bit like homeschooling with kids learning all the time, but with more group interactions.</p>

3

<p>As a homeschooling mom who almost didn’t read this thread because I really don’t belong in it, I agree completely with mathmom. I worked for an educational testing company for almost 9 years and I saw firsthand how the non-conforming kids, even highly gifted ones, fall thru the cracks. It was really heart-wrenching, what I saw. I think reform should go in the direction of LESS standardization, not more.</p>

<p>If you are interested in getting some ideas from the homeschooling community, check this out:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.enaact.net/[/url]”>http://www.enaact.net/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Homeschooling is evolving towards a ‘hybrid’ approach - the best of conventional schooling but with more power and control in the hands of the parents. </p>

<p>Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the best ideas from both approaches could be merged into a ‘hybrid’?</p>

<p>Ah, that’s exactly what co-ops like ENAACT are doing! Check out ‘University Model Schools’ section. This particular hybrid school is Christian. Most homeschooling parents are Christian. I would love to see some of these ideas incorporated into the secular world.</p>

<p>I know a lot of this wouldn’t apply to a public school system, but you might find some ideas…</p>

4

<p>I don’t even know where to start. I’m burnt out on public education, and have always been its biggest cheerleader.</p>

<p>Suffice it to say (for now…I’ll probably chime in more) that unbearably strict mandates, which towns are expected to cover with little state or federal aid, as well as red tape, have ruined public schools. </p>

<p>I have nothing but the deepest respect for the individuals who show up to teach every day, with all the crud and nonsense they must endure. I don’t blame the teachers for the mess our public schools are in. I don’t blame the unions. I do blame whatever/whomever is behind the effort to systematically dismantle public education, and I really believe it is a dedicated effort, since American capitalists like to privatize everything.</p>

<p>I am frankly disgusted with public education, and that saddens me to no end.</p>

5

<p>LESS Standardization, not more. EXACTLY!!! On my more paranoid days I would agree that the standardization tzars are conspiring to dismantle public education.</p>

6

<p>Mandate vouchers in every state.</p>

7

<p>“LESS Standardization, not more. EXACTLY!!!”</p>

<p>Well, we are on the same page. I went to a Montessori elementary school. It’s not right for kids who need more structure, but it was great for me (and a lot like homeschooling, at least at first). Charter schools are one way to provide an assortment of styles, but there’s no reason ordinary public schools can’t offer a wide array of options. Chinese language immersion, performing arts theme, highly structured and disciplined…match the school to the kid. Reward good principals with freedom to redesign the curriculum.</p>

<p>There HAS to be more family intervention/assistance. If the kids are up all night watching TV, or home all day looking after their siblings, or school lunch is their only square meal of the day…well, I know I couldn’t learn under those conditions.</p>

8

<p>Here are some examples of why I think standardization is bad for the kids who don’t fit the mold:</p>

<p>When I worked for the educational testing company, I saw how the tests were scored. First, there’s all sorts of manipulation that goes into that. You parents would be shocked if you had ANY idea the fudging, the manipulation of data to make it look good…it’s atrocious! Oh, and the mistakes! You wouldn’t believe how frequently a test item gets pulled for some mistake. Sure, they do correct them - they have to or they’ll get fined by the school districts - but still…rather disconcerting, imo.</p>

<p>Then, even when there are no mistakes…</p>

<p>The reading test. Supposed to measure the kid’s reading and comprehension, right? Well, I graded some of those, and it was just heartwrenching, because sometimes I would come across a paper written by a kid who was just so obviously gifted, and yet I was forced to give the kid a failing grade!!! Why? Because the kid took off on some tangent, or embellished a certain point with some very creative thought processes…or wrote a little story that was obviously a witty satire of the original story…in these cases the kid CLEARLY understood the story, could CLEARLY read (and write) quite well! BUT, because the kid didn’t list these 4 particular points, no way could s/he get a good score. In some cases, the kids listed OTHER points that, imo, were just as important. All very subjective, as to which are the important points in the story! But in an effort to standardize, ONLY the required 4 points could be covered in the answer, or else…the kid has to take remedial summer reading class. (Score is lowered for each point missing, then if the score was 2 or 1 the kid had to take the remedial class, or something like that, don’t remember that part exactly.)</p>

<p>Then, the writing, oh, the writing!! That was even worse!</p>

<p>Well there were these 2 papers that were poignant, so much so that I literally got tears in my eyes when I read them. One described intangibles like living in a better neighborhood, not having to be on welfare, having a better life for her kids, without gangs or drugs, etc… The other was written by a very obviously gifted kid who described how bad the food would be in prison, where he’d probably end up if something didn’t change in his life. His writing was superb, well-crafted, and emotionally evocative. (And, what’s really sad is that his story was most likely true.)</p>

<p>But because these papers didn’t describe the color of the house, guess what? Low score.</p>

<p>These kids fell thru the cracks due to standardization.</p>

9

<p>Wow, I just now noticed that you included ‘homeschooling’ in your list of possible topics. In that case, I will share something I wrote awhile back about homeschooling. The links provide some really excellent info.</p>

<hr>

<p>Many people assume that homeschooling means that the child is stuck at home all day, without any socializing. It is true that some people do homeschool in that way, and that is certainly detrimental to any child, imo.</p>

<p>However, that is not the only way to homeschool, and in fact most homeschooling parents do not homeschool that way. Nowadays, there are many options that were not available even 10 years ago. One option that is gaining in popularity is participation in homeschool ‘co-ops.’ Homeschool co-ops offer the best of both worlds. The child participates in the co-op once or twice a week, so s/he gets a ‘taste’ of the classroom experience as well as that all-important socializing. Some co-ops have even evolved into ‘hybird’ schools in which the children attend 3 days per week. Co-ops are bascially schools run by the parents, but without the strictures of conventional schools. The parents can decide with their children which classes to enroll in, keeping in mind that the classes are supplemental and not intended to replace what’s being taught at home. There are usually few or no rules regarding age limits: for example, my son took several high-school level classes when he was in 6th-8th grades.</p>

<p>My son attended co-ops up until 10th grade, when he enrolled at the local community college. He took classes in art (drawing, painting, sculpting), piano, Shakespeare, speech and drama, chess, yearbook/journalism, chemistry with lab, and many other enriching subjects. He felt very much at home there, because the classes were small and he had a circle of friends whom he knew very well and was comfortable with. It was a safe environment. I never had to worry about knives or gangs. And, it was much more affordable than private schools.</p>

<p>My son also participated in many other activities, including being on a Robotics team, complete with the state competition with all its cheerleaders and excitement. He was never interested in organized sports, but many homeschool students participate in martial arts, gymnastics, scouting, etc. so there are plenty of opportunities for socializing without the strictures of school.</p>

<p>An excellent case in favor of homeschooling is made by John Holt in his outstanding book, ‘Teach Your Own.’ This effectively makes the case that, rather than sacrificing socialization by homeschooling, socialization is actually the reason TO homeschool! (Now there’s a radical thought!) I highly recommend this book; it is what turned my mind around.</p>

<p>Here is a summary of the key points covered by Mr. Holt:</p>

<p><a href=“Common Objections to Homeschooling - The Natural Child Project”>Common Objections to Homeschooling - The Natural Child Project;

<p>See also:</p>

<p><a href=“http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/articles/042998a.htm[/url]”>http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/articles/042998a.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>…especially the one entitled ‘No Thank You, We Don’t Believe in Socialization!’ but they are all excellent. These will give you a completely different picture of the ‘real’ homeschooling experience (as opposed to the clinical opinion of the psychologists, most of whom have probably never even met homeschooled children).</p>

10

<p>Agree with suze… voucher system.</p>

11

<p>

I agree. I was in the Open Program in elementary school, which meant that K-2 kids were grouped together and 3-5 kids were grouped together. Each classroom had about 50 kids and 3 teachers, which meant that the teachers could split up and teach different subjects or levels. Sometimes they would set up stations where we went around and learned different subjects on our own. </p>

<p>The biggest thing I would improve is getting hands on learning back into the curriculum. No wonder kids are doing so poorly in the sciences- the curriculum doesn’t leave room for labs, let alone field trips. Speaking of which, my school district virtually eliminated field trips due to cost. :mad:</p>

12

<p>I would allow more hiring of teachers who didn’t have an “education” degree, but wanted to teach-particularly at the middle and high school level</p>

<p>Currently we have a dearth of math & science teachers- however I have spoken to many professionals- with Phds in math and science- who have been working with district teachers in an attempt to help them meet the needs of their kids- but they are not themselves allowed to apply for a classroom teacher job, unless they have an education degree.</p>

<p>Meanwhile we have those with education degrees- who have perhaps taken a couple bio classes but no upper division science classes in college, teaching physics and chem to advanced students. </p>

<p>We also have low math and science requirements for elementary school teachers- additionally- we have substitutes allowed to teach out of their area.
My daughter had Spanish teachers- who had taken Spanish in high school for example.( they were trained as history teachers)
I would require all job postings to be by springtime for following year- so that positions were not being filled in Nov and Dec, when the “good” teachers, were already employed.</p>

<p>I would require hours by every family/friends/relatives- to spend in support of the school. Minimum hours- it wouldn’t have to be filled by the parent- but by some adult in the students name.
It would make evident that a commitment to education was important & valued.</p>

<p>Teachers and all staff- would have to take the highest level standardized test given at their school- and results would be posted- just as students results are posted.
( including the school board)</p>

13

<p>“national school reform” ???</p>

<p>My first suggestion would be to keep the national government out of it. One size fits all reform by definition doesn’t fit anyone. Besides not every place needs reform. There are a whole pile of schools out there working just fine thank you, not all of them to be sure, but more are working than are not.
Control of the schools needs to be at the local level, especially if you want the classroom teacher to have any autonomy at all.</p>

<p>If you want a reform though you are going to have to put some market accountability into the system that doesn’t involve voting with a moving van. We can’t leave the poor behind in under funded schools with heavy ed loads. There has to be some parental choice in the system.</p>

14

<p>lealdragon – we’ve experienced some of the same problems with standardized testing. For instance, one of my sons <em>flunked</em> a writing assessment a long time ago (5th grade) because he didn’t write what was expected. If I recall, it was graded by three people, and only one of the three passed it. In the end, it was <em>rescored</em> --looked at by a different person, who gave it a passing grade. Because, what are you going to do, hold back a kid who is one of brightest students in the class because he didn’t pass this writing test (one or two paragraph assessment?) because he obviously thought the prompt was stupid. Well, if things get too standardized and rigid, yes, that is what you would do! Fortunately there was some flexibility there.</p>

<p>I think the prompt was something along the lines of, “if you could be a part or character in a book, what would you be?”, and S wrote that he would not want to be a part of the book but would rather be an observer. Not what they were looking for! Around the same time, he scored unexpectedly low in some areas on one of the standardized tests they gave. I blew it off as a bad day for testing, but another mom whose son also scored low bought some books, started working with her son on his weak areas. A few months later we learned the tests were scored wrong . . . So their scores went back up . . .</p>

<p>So, no, I don’t think much of all this testing and assessing . . .</p>

15

<p>Why would I reform something which continues to be so successful?</p>

16

<p>mstee, that is EXACTLY the sort of thing I’m referring to - kids who think outside the box. Your son thought outside the box - he questioned the question itself instead of just blindly following it. This is a sign of intelligence and creativity and should be nurtured, imo, but this very trait is not allowed for in standardized testing.</p>

<p>Your son is lucky his test got rescored. I saw many such cases that did not, and I found it tragic.</p>

17

<p>I think maybe you should consider another topic… </p>

<p>Anything and I mean anything you write can easily be picked apart by one pov or another. It is the three blind men and the elephant, they can only describe what they “see” about the elephant, not the elephant itself. </p>

<p>Education in America is a success and a failure at the same time. Depending on personal experiences it works or it doesn’t. </p>

<p>good luck.</p>

18

<p>Well hey, its not like my teacher even reads our term papers anyways, even though it is an AP class…</p>

<p>In any event, I’m glad to see that you all have an input</p>

19

<p>I am certainly not an expert on public education. But after taking numerous linguistics and ESL classes at the college level, it seems that there almost needs to be totally separate classes for students with very limited English abilities. Not because I think those kids are “stupid” (because I know they are not), but because those kids need teachers who are specifically trained EXTENSIVELY in ESL. In some areas they might even be better served to have entire schools devoted to this specialized kind of thing, but even so it would be nearly impossible to have teachers trained in every single native language that children might need.</p>

20

<p>there was a Harvard study that concluded getting rid of the teacher’s union would be the first thing to do.</p>