What would you have done?

Parent Cafe
1

I saw something today that has left me shaking and feeling guilty as I did nothing. In my life I hope I don’t witness something like this again, but if I had had time to think, I would believe I might have reacted. Of course you will have the advantage of being able to think this through, but I still would like to hear others opinion.

While sitting in a parking space finishing up a phone call, I saw a man and what I would assume was his daughter walk out of a store. The little girl looked to be 3 or 4 years old. They stopped at the driver’s car door, it was a two door car, and in the blink of an eye, the man hailed off and slapped the child across her face. This was not a light smack, not that it matters; he uses his entire arm in delivering the blow. He then opened the car door, picked the child up under her arms, and threw her into the back seat; he then entered the driver’s seat.

Once he was in the car, he turned around and you could tell he was screaming at the child, something he continued to do while backing out of the space. his arms were flailing around and you could see the anger in his face. I was so stunned, that I froze and according to the person I was speaking to, I actually screamed out loud. Not that it would make this man’s actions warranted, I never saw the child do anything wrong; it is not like she ran out into traffic, she was walking right by the man.

After the fact, I think I might have followed him out of the parking lot to get a car description and plate number. Maybe called the police while following him, not know if they would respond or not. I do not think I would have approached the man for fear of being beaten or shot myself, but I feel horrible I did nothing. This all happened over maybe one minute, so leaving my car and going over to him would have been too late anyway as I was an aisle over with my car facing his.

What would you have done?

2

How horrible! I agree for your own safety I would not have approached him. Dialing 911 and explaining what you saw and giving them the license plate would probably have been the best way to try and help.

3

I agree with @123Mom456 .

4

Gotten a description of the car and plate and called the police to report a case of child abuse/endangerment.

I would NOT have confronted the man, yelled at him, come close, etc. That not only puts you in danger but can cause more harm to come to the child.

It’s ok that you were in shock. Most people are when they see something like that. It isn’t your fault at all and you shouldn’t feel bad. It is human nature to shut off when you’re shocked because it takes the brain time to process.

I used to work at an IPV shelter and on the crisis line. I would walk women through the steps to get all the identifying information they could from their abuser while keeping themselves, their children, and their pets as safe as possible. It’s the only reason why I would know to do that. It’s programmed into my brain after doing it for so many years.

((((hugs)))) to you snowball.

5

I probably would have stared in disbelief not knowing what to do.

Having had time to think this through, I think “take the license number and car description and call 911” is the right thing.

6

I would have been frozen in shock too. :frowning:

7

It is always upsetting to see parenting practices that go against all that you personally believe about how adults should treat children.

Alas, depending on how hard the “throw” into the car was, Child Protective Services probably would not have investigated the case. They have told me (I was a school principal for eleven years) that slapping is legal, spanking is legal, and even the use of a paddle on a child’s rear end is legal. The view is that discipline is a parent’s prerogative and there are cultural differences. For them to take a case, you need:
–excessive force: e.g., it is hard enough to leave a mark. (If you describe a mark, CPS always comes to investigate),
and/or
–excessive frequency: e.g., child describes being hit just about every day,
and/or
–excessive fear: e.g., child states they are always fearful of the parent.

There is actually a child abuse interview protocol that teachers are taught as part of their licensing, that lets them know when a call to CPS is legally required. Teachers don’t determine whether there was abuse; they just indicate that the threshold was reached for reporting an incident to CPS, who then come to interview the child and determine if it was an instance of abuse or not.

As principal, at least I could forbid its occurrence on school grounds. And, when a child reported to me what had happened at home, if it was not a CPS case,I could speak with the parent at a calm moment about a variety of nonviolent alternatives when a child misbehaves, particularly if I already had a relationship with the parent and knew the parent would view my advice as help and not as interference.

With a complete stranger, when you have witnessed only a brief exchange without knowing the full background and are not in a position of authority to interview the child? Like you said, you need to judge in the moment whether a comment would serve to embarrass the parent and make them stop, or whether it would just enrage them further, creating a less safe ride home for the child, or, as you feared, potential violence towards you. Sometimes I have commented in such situations (and received varying responses), sometimes just glared at the parent and stayed out of it. In the most egregious case, you could indeed do as you said: take a license number and call the police. Nothing would be done about the slap and the yelling; depending on your description of the throw, and also if the parent drove recklessly afterwards, it is possible it would be followed up on.

8

@TheGreyKing makes very good points. I will also add that it largely depends on your area and how overburdened the social workers are. Unfortunately, they have to prioritize and that might not rank highly on their list.

HOWEVER, if the report is made and it’s clear that this parent has a history/pattern of abuse, it might rank more highly. That’s why it’s important to report whenever possible. It might be a one-off thing or the cops might be getting reports about this person all the time.

9

Nothing

10

Just to be clear - Did he not put the child into a car seat or booster seat?

In your position, I would definitely have tried to get a license plate and call it in, especially if the child was not seat-belted in. Since I was on a call and had my cell phone in hand, I would probably also have attempted to get a picture or video if it were possible to do so without his noticing. I usually react fairly quickly. Once, a car in front of me hit another car and then just kept going. I got a license and called 911 immediately from my position in traffic, just in case the victim called in about being in a hit-and-run.

11

No, he did not put her in a car seat; he truly threw her in the back, like a sack of laundry!

A picture would have been a good idea, but from where I was, all I would have gotten was the front of his car. Again, I was so stunned that I just froze and then they drove off. I would make a horrible witness in a crime as I remember very little as far as details of the man, car, etc.

I pray this little girl is alright and maybe someone that cares will see the handprint left on her face as I guarantee he left one.

12

Don’t be too hard on yourself. Tough situation. It’s a good lesson to the rest of us that things like this need to be reported and we should try not to let shock get in the way.

13

Just reading your account made me feel sick. If he was willing to be that violent in public, in broad daylight, I shudder to think of what that child’s home life is like behind closed doors.

14

Ugh. I have a very tender heart towards little kids. I don’t react quickly so I would have probably done what you did. For sure I would not have intervened at the time, heaven only knows what could have happened to you, or the child. I agree the best idea would have been getting the license plate and calling the police. Being a jerky mean parent isn’t illegal unfortunately and I’m really sad thinking about how that poor child will grow up. But you have no idea what his role is in her life. Maybe it was a boyfriend of the mom or someone not the dad. A call to the police might alert the mom, but I’m guessing if this guy is doing this to this girl in public he’s not worried about his relationship with the mom either. Some people are real a-holes. I’m mad just thinking about this.

15

Responses like this are what causes child abuse to continue.

I’d love to hear your explanation for why you would do "nothing’.

16

Don’t beat yourself up, you were smart not to intervene, especially given the state the parent was in, and you also didn’t have a lot of time to react there, and likely were in shock, too. People tend to watch movies where someone is heroic and acts in a split second to save the day,and that simply isn’t true all the time for all the people, even people who are trained to deal with crisis and so forth can hesitate in a situation like this, when faced with fight or flight or whatnot people might see themselves as the steely eyed hero or heroine you see in the movies, but when actually faced with it are quite human:).

These kinds of situations are hard, too, because how do you know the line between parental discipline and abuse? I agree with others, the best course might have been to phone this in, but most people hate to think they are calling in something like that, they don’t want to intrude or because as parents they might have been aware of others judging them and didn’t want to. It is all good and wonderful to say “err on the side of caution”, but it isn’t that easy in practice, there even these days is a lot of pressure to ‘stay out of other people’s families’, and often the judgement is to err on the side of not doing anything…(or worse, people who think anything a parent does with a child is okay outside over abuse like sexual abuse or breaking bones and the like, claiming that is ‘freedom to parent as you choose’, which is why so much abuse has gone unreported for so long, if that is libertarianism you can have it…).

If you really feel something is over the top, the fact that the guy struck the kid, then threw her in the back of the car without a child seat or even getting her buckled in, would get my radar up, then call it in and let law enforcement decide whether it is actionable, tell them what you saw, why you think it was abuse, and they can take it from there. Sadly, there are still police departments and other officials who still think child abuse is no big deal or a ‘parental matter’, especially where "spare the rod and spoil the child’ tends to be taken literally.

We had a DYFS incident once when our son was very young, someone noticed yellow blotches on his skin (turned out to be paint from some project or other he was doing) and called DYFS (pretty sure i knew who called, and it might have been in retaliation from someone calling the cops one night when he and his wife got into a massive fight, when people heard things like things being smashed and the like, I think the husband thought I called it in). The woman who came told us it was okay to discipline a kid, slap them, etc, (which we told her we never do, and never did, we both felt and still feel that hitting a kid, for whatever reason, simply tells them that hitting is okay). She said when allegations of seeing bruises and such was in, they had to investigate, which is why she came out.

In any event, don’t beat yourself up, these kinds of things are not cut and dried and when you have only a small time to react, few of us turn into Wonder Woman or Superman:). I don’t know what I would do, I would be a lot less afraid of the guy, can handle myself pretty well if it got ugly, and would just love to rip him a new one if he got physical with me, but the other side of this is knowing how messed up the law can be, I could end up being the one who got in trouble for trying to protect the child, which is something to consider, too, even if you could defend yourself if the dad went nuts.

17

Like the OP, probably nothing, but worried about it afterward.
Had a similar feeling this past weekend. I was on a roadtrip with my two youngest Ds. Sent them into the restroom at an interstate rest area. When they came back to the car they said there was a woman with a sign saying she was stranded. (There was a “no soliciting” sign there, btw). I walked by her on my way in and out of the building. I looked at her. I don’t talk to or give to panhandlers. She looked 30ish, clean-cut, but sunburned. Something didn’t seem right. I suppose I could’ve reported her soliciting, and she might have gotten “un-stranded” that way. Often there are drug/alcohol/mental health issues, or scams involved . IDK–I was wondering about human trafficking. I felt sorry for her, but I didn’t want to get involved. Even if I had any cash, I wouldn’t have given her any.
Still, I wonder what happened to her, what her story was, and feel guilty for ignoring her.

18

Maybe a better question that “would have” is “will” If you honestly believe that you witnessed child abuse, and your description sure sounds as if you did, then make a police report now, letting them know the time and store. There is a high likelihood that there is video surveillance of the store entrance/exit. There may even be video surveillance of the parking lot. The police may be able to view the incident for themselves and draw their own conclusions about the severity and need to pursue identification. If you are bothered enough about you lack of action to post here, I suggest that you consider being bothered enough to take an action that could lead to protection for the child, or at least a second look from someone where there may in fact be video footage available.

19

Your description is above and beyond a “spanking” for a kid’s tantrum. It’s beyond “tired mom syndrome”.

Honestly, I probably would have yelled “HEY! CUT IT OUT!” across the parking lot (admittedly from a distance) if I’d been quick enough to respond. and then get license plate if able to report it.
I would hope that my little intervention would halt the “do-loop” of anger that appeared to be manifesting itself…
I really do think interventions make a difference no matter how small.

20

I hope that if I had been in the situation, I would have gotten the license plate number and called the police, but the chance of me actually being able to read the number from a distance is actually about zero.

If the police did stop this guy, though, maybe the only thing they could charge him with is not putting the kid in a carseat properly.