What's actually in reach for a 3.6 Student?

College Search & Lists
1 
I am attending a top-ranked public school in Illinois (20th in State, A+ on Niche, if it really matters), but due to a continuing struggle, my GPA has failed to show my capability. Sophomore year, my dad spent a combined 6 weeks in the hospital and my brother and I sold a house ourselves. Junior year, my dad was again in the hospital, and family issues kept me distracted from the busywork of school, though my test average remains at a solid 95% or so.  I have all A-'s and B's, but will have a C+ in Algebra II (had a bad teacher, my counselor did not let me switch to one I could handle).

In short:
3.55 - 3.6 UW GPA
32 ACT (34R, 32E, 30M, 30Sci)
A.P. U.S. and European History (5)
A.P. Chem, Spanish, Gov., and World (will be taking Senior year)
Fluent in Spanish

ECs
Varsity Track (Throwing, Sprinting)
130hrs of Volunteer Service

Awards:
National Honors Society
National Social Studies Honors Society (Rho Kappa)

I will rock the essay, as I have strong writing. I have two letters of recommendation from teachers, at least one speaks of me in absolutely glowing terms. If I find a way to express it, I may find an advantage in my own drive to learn. I have read some 2000 pages in classics and political theory and philosophy. I do not foresee a good way to put this on my App. however, unless I declare as a history/political science major.

Given that my application will be stellar, my ACT score will be average, but my GPA horrendous for the top schools, is there any real chance? I was looking into Universities with stellar academics, small classes (student: professor ratio), good campuses, and good classroom experience rankings. At the very top are  UChicago, Princeton, William and Mary and UPenn. Upon initial investigation, I appear to have screwed myself out of these schools with my GPA.

I was told CC was an incredibly knowledgeable group, and thus I have come hat-in-hand to ask, where then can a student find top-tier academics, small classes, and solid standard of living for on-campus students with only a 3.6 GPA? Secondly, is there any use keeping so selective a list or are they as out of reach as the cold calculations say?

Universities considered (from most to least selective):
-Princeton
-UChicago
-UPenn
-Carleton
-Grinnell
-Oberlin
-Minnesota at the Twin Cities (Safety)
-Wisconsin at Madison (Safety)
-Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (Safety)

Thanks in advance,

BTW, if anyone’s curious (to which I doubt) the classics I read were:
-The Republic
-The Prince
-The Social Contract
-Two Treatises of Government
-The Communist Manifesto
-Thus Spake Zarathustra

-The Stranger
-The Divine Comedy
-The Decameron
-Gulliver’s Travels
-Candide
-The Tempest (Shakespeare)
-Othello (Shakespeare)
-Coriolanus (Shakespeare)

-Crime and Punishment
-Heart of Darkness
-Picture of Dorian Gray
-Waiting for Godot

2

I’m horribly stupid sometimes:
I should have included this; My school is not generous with its grades. My GPA still puts me far into the better half of my class (of which a dozen are running 4.3’s w/ 35 ACT scores, skewing average), but I do not think I am in the top quarter after the C+. Thanks again.

3

I think for your 3 reachy schools you would need to be in the top 25% if not the top 10%. It’s not the gpa so much but a C in core class Jr year. Do you have Neviance? If not what is the GC saying? I think you forgot W&M on your list. I would not put all 3 of those, keep Chi as it seems a lot what you are looking for, otherwise keep looking.

4

Your mix of research universities and LACs suggests that you have not really determined fit schools for you, and you are chasing brands.

5

Nice eye, I did forget W&M. I figure only two of the top-tier schools will stay.
My school does use Naviance, but relatively few of our students have applied to Chicago or the liberal arts colleges, so while I can use it to filter schools, I cannot use it to check our admissions plots at near half the schools on the list. If this list seems too high-caliber for my profile, where would you suggest I stand in reaches’ and targets’ admissions. (For example, must I stand above the 50th percentile on hard statistics to consider a school likely?)
Two questions:
1.) This may be off-topic, but I did manage to teach myself the material by the end of Algebra II (95% on the second sem. final), do you think that taking an SAT II Math 1 Test would do anything to counteract that grade? It would prove proficiency.
2.) Grinnell and Carleton are selective, but not nearly to the extent that UChicago or Princeton are. At an average incoming GPA of 3.74 and 3.68 respectively, I fall significantly behind at 3.6. This is obviously an opinion, but do you think having an a solid application and above-average test scores could make up for such a flaw?

Thanks again for your time.

6

What is your state of residence? What is you financial situation? How much can your parents pay?

7

I disagree that having a mix of research universities and smaller LACs mean that you have not determined the right fit for you. When I was applying to colleges I applied to both because I wanted to keep my options open. There are plenty of students that would be happy at either and nothing in the OP’s list suggests that he or she is just chasing brands.

You may also want to consider Reed College, St. John’s, and Haverford College. The former are strong in the classics and have intellectual campuses but are not as selective. William & Mary also has an appreciation for the classics and a very intellectual atmosphere, however it will be a reach because you are out of state.

That said, it is not impossible to get in with a lower GPA and I am living proof of that. I was accepted with a slightly lower GPA than yours, but made up for it with strong essays and extracurriculars, which in my opinion, is what definitely made the difference. Your interests in the classics would make for a fantastic essay.

If you feel that the circumstances with your dad’s hospitalization had a significant impact on your grades, I would ask your guidance counselor to write about it in their recommendation to explain what happened.

8

You may want to look at the SAT Subject test requirements for the schools you are thinking of applying to. Most top tier schools prefer if not require Math 2 SAT and dont really care about Math 1. If you can get a high grade in Math 2 (780-800) I think your school grade in math wont be as harmful. Even if you do really well on Math 1 though, I dont think it’ll be of much use to higher end schools.

9

<<<
Minnesota at the Twin Cities (Safety)
-Wisconsin at Madison (Safety)
-Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (Safety)
<<<

These aren’t safeties unless your parents have said that they will pay all costs? Will your parents pay the high OOS costs of UWisconsin? How about UMinn? UIUC is instate, but it also has a high instate cost. What about W&M’s high OOS cost?

How much will your parents pay each year?

10

To be candid, I do think that the top 3 schools on your list are likely out of reach, especially Princeton. I think you can sometimes compensate for a 3.5 GPA with stellar EC’s, essays and test scores, but in addition to your GPA, your EC’s and test scores are not really competitive for the top 3 schools. We had 9 students apply to Princeton, all of whom were in the top 10% and most in the top 5%. The only one who got in was the valedictorian who also had a 2400 SAT and stellar EC’s. And even he was deferred from SCEA before he was accepted. If you are not in the top 25% of your class I think you need to re-think your list. If you describe a little more what you are looking for, I’m sure you can get more help.

11

Thanks Shawnspencer for the additional colleges to check out. (P.S., Pysch is awesome.)

Mtimoma, Thanks for the clarification on the SAT IIs. The colleges on this list recommend or require 2 SAT II tests, but do not specify the tests outside of specific fields. The College Board recommends 1 semester of pre-calc before Math 2, so I was hesitant. Upon your suggestion, I dug out some study guides and it appears much simpler than I had thought. I will take the Math 2 test instead.

Economically, I have been assured that I am absolutely in the clear for most of these schools as of right now. Forced assumption is my household’s total income is $160,000 or so before tax. The only ones where cost may prohibit me are those that I am likely prohibited by academics as well; Their $60-$65k pricetags intimidate us a bit. I may be a bit paranoid, but while we’re fine financially currently, I wonder if another one of my dad’s increasingly frequent hospital visits could cost him his job. If that happens, this whole list may need to be rethought, but at current, it’'s safe.

I checked Naviance to apply that (safety) label for admissions, not costs, as Urbana-Champaign accepted near 80% of applicants from our school (no one over a 3.2 GPA from our school was denied there either). UMN and UW-Madison with a 3.6 GPA, 29 ACT average from Naviance seem less likely, but still probable.

Corinthian, candid is exactly what I was asking for. I was judging schools first by academic caliber, hanging around schools that were ranked highly by Niche and Princeton Review’s “top lists”, then narrowed it to schools with smaller class sizes and well-rated administrations and campuses. High caliber academics and small class sizes caused this list to gravitate towards incredibly selective schools and I recognize that. As I had posted earlier, I will not be applying to all three of those top schools mentioned, it will be one or two of them. Basically, in order of priority, top-tier academics, relatively small class sizes (with exceptions for the safeties), administration rating, campus rating. Bonus points to schools that fall onto the top lists for career placement, financial aid, and low student debt.

Outside of Princeton, UChicago, and UPenn, does the rest of the list’s LACs seem out of reach? From Naviance, I fall on average at Oberlin and well above at Grinnell by GPA. (Grinnell had only 5 applicants from our school, @ 3.22 GPA).

Thanks to all of you again, for both your help and your patience.
I apologize for being so slow to respond. I’ve been stuck between Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and a mighty work week.

12

<<<
I may be a bit paranoid, but while we’re fine financially currently, I wonder if another one of my dad’s increasingly frequent hospital visits could cost him his job. If that happens, this whole list may need to be rethought, but at current, it’'s safe.
<<<

Well, that isn’t a paranoid concern. That is a very real concern. At some point, the employer isn’t going to be paying his salary while he’s not at work. He’ll have gone thru his long term sick time.

To be on the safe side, apply to a couple of schools that you know FOR SURE will give you very large merit and you’d have a low remaining cost. By next spring, you may know one way or another whether your dad’s situation will change the financial picture for your family.

I hope your dad is ok, but frequent hospital visits would definitely be a big concern.

13

Actually, after posting that, I started looking into more “financial safety” schools myself.
I found it hard to find schools that matched my previous criteria. Great schools won’t be giving me great merit aid. I am not exceptional enough to stand out at these schools.
However, as a backup I have found a couple of Southern schools, University of Alabama being the most significant name among them, that have automatic guaranteed merit scholarships for my profile. At Alabama, with a 3.5 and a 32 ACT, full tuition is waived for out-of-state students (Alabama Presidential Scholarship). That leaves room and board, and any supplementary class fees. At that, Alabama would be a bargain. It appears to fall short of expectations in academic caliber compared to most the colleges on my list, but research may prove otherwise.
Outside of University of Alabama, there are several other schools with guaranteed half and full tuition scholarships that I have not yet researched.
Further, Marquette, while itself expensive, is rated very highly on merit aid. I would not be as outstanding an applicant at Marquette as Alabama, but I am in the process of determining whether or not I would receive significant merit aid from them. I only mention Marquette here because a cousin of mine with a similar profile got nearly full tuition (believe it came out to about 3/4) reduction there.
Though my family’s assets are falling low (hospital stays are absurdly expensive!), our income will very likely bar significant needs-based financial aid so I must be looking first at merit for economic safety.

So I guess, in short, for economic safeties, I do need to do quite a bit of research. My question then would be, what would be the fastest way to determine what schools will provide me with the best merit aid? I have scoured the “best merit aid” list on Princeton Review, and have manually dug through the scholarship opportunities at some of the colleges I have already suggested, but many of them are for less than 100 students. I was looking for ones that were safe bets.
I hate to gamble on getting merit aid, but far as good schools with just flat cheap tuition, they seem far and few between.

Thanks again for your time, mom2collegekids.

14

Even if you leave the financial aspect aside, Wisconsin is not a safety. OP, it depends on how you are relative to your classmates. Is your GPA considered high in your school? If so, it may not hurt you. But if there are multiple 4.0s and lots of students above your GPA with an equal or more difficult rigor, that may hurt you.

15

Honestly all you can really do is write the best essay you can and hope for the best. You sound very well read so the essay will be a boon, but probably not enough to lift you up to the reaches. I think finding financial and academic reaches is wise as you did mention that your dad is in a precarious situation. Try your best, but just make sure you won’t be disappointed with getting in safeties and matches only, and perhaps even going to a safety. If you would, try to reconsider your safeties.

Given the glimpse of you that you have provided, I feel that regardless of your college, you’ll do well so just make sure you strive then, as you define the success in college, not the college.

16

You owe yourself a visit to UA. Contact the Honors College there for a personal tour of the campus. I guarantee you will be impressed.

17

I think you have a nice mix of schools (but I’m always partial to seeing Oberlin on a list.) Personally, I think schools with holistic admissions look very favorably on excellent essays from kids who have had hardship. Just a sick dad doesn’t cut it, but it sounds like you actually have a story. As they say, “You pays your money and you takes your chances.” if you have safeties you like, then go for the reaches. Good luck.

18

@ CaliCash: My GPA isn’t exceptional at my school, but is above average. My final report card has not arrived yet, but as of last semester, I was hovering about top quarter. My district uses percentile, not direct rank I was at the 73th percentile, so top 27%. Not exceptional, but not as poor as it would be at surrounding schools. My class rank was slightly deflated by a group of twelve students running perfect 4.3 weighted GPAs (these students got 35s and 36s on their ACTs too).
Also, for whatever reason, of the twenty-two students Naviance records at roughly my profile (32 ACT, 3.5-3.6) that applied to UW-Madison, only five were not accepted, giving us ~75% acceptance there.

@CaliCash and andyis together, thanks for calling me out on the safeties. I fall around the average at UW and UI-UC by the numbers. I was putting an unrealistic amount of emphasis into the essay, but I predict andyis is right, the essay is secondary to the numbers.

@NoVADad99, thanks for the comment. I will be checking out Alabama this summer. First, the Presidential Scholarship is a rather tempting offer, if I like the school in other regards, but further, its honors program seems within reach.

@qualah, I fear, in the words of Oscar Wilde, my father may be “a dreadful invalid”. I’ve had a couple of distinct struggles, but renovating and selling my home sophomore year may be the token. If I am happy with Alabama and can find one more college willing to give a student with my profile merit aid, I will keep most my schools. Thanks for your help, and for the confidence.

Upon this groups response to the ambition of my list, I will most likely remove Princeton and UPenn, adding in their place at least Alabama, because it is wise to have an economic fallback, and that’s a great school to have there. Though I first checked it as a financial backup, it appears to be a good institution in its own right.
University of Chicago will stay because it remains a bit of a dream school, if a pipe dream at this point. I would happily eat the application fee for the chance there.

As to the rest of my list, Madison may disappear in favor of a slightly less competitive state school, if I can find one that fits as well as it does. Because U of I is supposedly preferential to in-state students, it will remain. I prefer UMN at the Twin Cities to UW-Madison and to Urbana-Champaign, and have a somewhat competitive profile there, so I keep it. I will continue to search for at least two more potentials. The first is to replace UW-Madison with a less selective school as that it could really be an academic fallback. The second will be another financial fallback, like Alabama, where I could receive good aid, just in case.

I have no further questions at this time. I would like to thank all of you that contributed again, for your information, your honesty, and your time. Feel free to throw school names at me if you think you know of a school that fits either of the two “slots” I need, but I will not be checking into this for at least a few days, scheduled myself another ACT to see if I can hit 33 because, “Why not?”
Enjoy the rest of your day/night depending on when you next see this.

19

My own research (for my D, who has similar stats to yours) indicates that none of the three Big Ten flagships you listed - UIUC, U of W-Madison and U MN -TC - are “safeties”.

It is, however, very likely you will be admitted, esp. if you are declaring for Humanities/LAS. They are a “match” and a very likely match.

But don’t be complacent and treat them as absolute safeties - they are not.

Also, don’t expect much, or any, merit aid from the two OOS schools. and do check the tuition for OOS if you haven’t.

If you can afford the OOS tuition at:
Indiana University
or The University of Iowa,
they are both good schools for liberal arts and humanities. They’re both easier to get into. I’m pretty sure they are both, indeed, “safeties” for you, as well.

You already qualify for the full tuition scholarship at:
Western Illinois University in Macomb IL.

You won’t win any prestige contests for attending there, but keep it in mind if your financial situation warrants it… and I’d apply early, if you’re interested at all…

Some other schools that would give you a nice merit scholarship -
U of Alabama has been mentioned already - also:
U of Missouri-Columbia and
U of Kansas would give you the equivalent of in-state tuition.

You also qualify with the MSEP program (Midwest Student Exchange Program) , as an IL resident.

Check the MSEP website for for more OOS schools where IL residents qualify for reduced tuition - often just a fraction more than the in-state rates.

Finally, given that you seem interested in the humanities and liberal arts, you should consider looking at some of the small private colleges that specialize in just the Liberal Arts and Sciences. At many of these, you would qualify for merit scholarships. They may not end up being as inexpensive as the MSEP state schools, but if you also qualify for financial aid, or your family is able to pay at least 20-30k total COA, then they may be much more affordable than schools like Grinnell, Carleton, etc.

The following colleges, while not as prestigious as Grinnell and others you listed, do have very good academic reputations and would give you a quality education as an undergraduate.

Illinois Wesleyan, Bloomington IL
Augustana College, Rock Island IL
Knox College, Galesburg IL
Kalamazoo College, Kalamazoo MI
Macalester College, St. Paul MN
Ohio Wesleyan U., Delaware OH
College of Wooster, Wooster OH
Denison, Granville OH
Luther College, Decorah Iowa (this one has a special program called “Pangea” that may appeal to you.)

That’s only a fraction, really, of the plethora of small colleges throughout the Midwest. There are many others that are not as well known and seem eager for good students like yourself.

And - have you considered Philosophy as a major? Classical Studies? Not trying to tell you what to study, but you seem to be just naturally leaning that way… Not sure if you were aware that those would be options for you…

20

Also, consider Penn State, if cost is not an issue. Penn State kept coming up when I searched for my D, but she doesn’t want a big, giant state school. I’ve heard good things about the quality of education there, though (sports scandal aside). And the town, State College, is supposed to be a great college town.