Thought I would start a thread about this topic since some have been discussing it on other threads. Interesting to ponder. How does the college program you graduate from effect your future employment? If you have options, should you always go for the program with the biggest name?
Some programs have more successful grads than others … but is it the chicken or the egg syndrome? Are they more successful because of the program or is the program more successful because of them?
Laura Osnes dropped out of Stevens Point. Millikin wasn’t on anyone’s map (for the most part) before Sierra Boggess - and she just went to Millikin because she was a legacy. Lindsay Mendez didn’t go to college.
I think there are some people who will be successful no matter what.
BUT … I do think having a good alumni network of successful grads can never hurt.
New York Times writer Frank Bruni has a new book called Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be: An Antidote to the College Admissions Mania. I haven’t read it yet, but the basic premise is that going to the most prestigious school is not causally connected to later success. I’m not sure if I buy this argument in all circumstances, and I’m really not sure what I think in the case of MT programs specifically. Certainly in this era of increased college admissions competitiveness and greatly increased college costs, many people are asking this question regardless of intended major!
I think when choosing a college, there are three factors that should all be considered:
- Fit - does it offer the curriculum you want? Is the training high-quality? Big/small college, conservatory or BA, urban or rural, distance from home, etc. etc. etc.)
- Prestige - is it a “name” school known for producing successful working actors? Is there a strong alumni network? Will the “name” help get you in the room early in your career? etc.
- Finances - can you afford this school (whether with savings, financial aid, scholarships, etc.) without having to go into crippling debt?
I think all three factors are definitely worth considering - but I also think for most of us, it will be VERY hard to find all three things in one school. So you really have to do a cost/benefit analysis. If you CAN afford the prestigious “dream school” and it’s a good fit, sure, go for it! But I don’t agree with taking on crippling debt to do it. It IS important to get good training, but it doesn’t have to be at big “name” college.
Also, I think one of the reasons students at big name colleges do well is that the big name colleges are cherry-picking the top students to begin with. As KaKaMom pointed out, some people are SO talented that they will do well no matter WHAT school they go to. But if they go to a big name school, then that school gets the “credit” for producing a successful actor.
I’m definitely NOT saying that prestige doesn’t matter at all or that is shouldn’t be considered! I think that especially early in one’s career, when the resume is light, a prestigious school on the resume can get you in the room. The question is, how much is that advantage worth? Is it worth decades of crippling debt?
There’s a very eye-opening discussion about this very topic on Audition Update right now. I don’t think I’m allowed to link it, but if you go to Audition Update, click on “Bitching Post” (the third gray tab, after “Home” and “Callback Corner”), and type “Student Loans for Theatre Degree”, you will see it.
One actor comments that he/she went to a prestigious big-name school and feels that he/she learned a lot and made valuable connections…BUT it left the actor with $95,000 in student loans, which has now ballooned to over $100,000 due to interest. This actor has to pay $1400 per month to the student loan payment, and if an acting gig comes along that only pays a few hundred per week, the loan has to be deferred while on that contract (because the gig doesn’t pay enough to make the monthly loan payment, let alone eat), so the interest builds up even more. This actor is now actually considering taking a few years OFF from acting just to focus on working and paying down the loan.
So while a prestigious school can be an advantage, and is something to consider, I don’t think it’s SO much of an advantage that it’s worth taking on crippling debt that will ruin your life. But if you can afford it without too much debt, then sure, it can help. JMO!
@vvnstar I am glad you moved this discussion from @ManVan’s thread as it was veering off the positive congratulatory course. In our experience (D has been in the business a long time, has an agent, is AEA and SAG/AFTRA) casting is looking for the best fit for a role. They do not care about the school attended as long as the training and talent are there. This is proven time and time again when actors without BFA training are cast. A name school may get you into the casting room (probably limited to within a year or so after graduation) but it’s what you bring to the audition that gets you the roles.
Last year, my S got into a very good program, with lots of opportunities off-campus to further his performance resume. When the acceptance letter arrived, he/we were thrilled! So-- off S and dad go to visit the campus (he auditioned at Unifieds). They left the campus, after being there for a full day, completely under-whelmed, and disappointed. The school/program “sounded” perfect, but in reality, S just couldn’t see himself there. It was also quite expensive. If S had really wanted to go there, we would have figured out a way to pay for/finance it-- but it was going to be a struggle! When he decided to cross it off his list, hubby and I were secretly relieved.
In this example, the prestigious school just wasn’t the right fit. Where he is now, is-- for him. Is it well known? Not really. Has it graduated some excellent talent? Absolutely. Is he getting a good MT education? Yes. Does S know he’s got his work cut out for him after graduation? Oh, yes. He knew all this and still decided to go where he is now, and is happy. Beyond that, it’s up to the student to persevere and make a success out of him/herself.
Nope…best known does not equal best …it just means popular. And that can change like the wind. This year’s prom king and queen will be replaced with new ones. It’s all in perception of what is “best”. Go where you fit and find your bliss.
Brilliantly said @bisouu!
Here’s a blog post with a Q&A on this very topic: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mary-anna-dennard/does-college-name-prestige_b_5631385.html
This is a very hot topic in my house right now. And most of those who have contacted me or my S about it (through PM, e-mail, phone calls) have said my S and I are nuts. Setting aside for the moment that it really is a personal decision, I will try to answer the question: Why in the world did your S turn down Carnegie Mellon for Texas State? For that matter why did he turn down top programs like Penn State, Baldwin Wallace, Elon and Michigan (he got an e-mail saying he was likely to come off the wait list at Mich)???
I very much like @actorparent 's 3 categories because these were all a huge part of our decision process. Let me start off by saying that I feel like any program by S was admitted to will give him exceptional training. Any of the programs on our admit list will do a great job and provide an outstanding education. And I readily admit that Carnegie Mellon would be a huge plus for his resume. HOWEVER …
- The best "fit" for S was at Texas State. It was the #1 connection for him including campus, faculty, current students, and incoming students. It felt like home to him. The atmosphere that Kaitlin Hopkins has created there is incredible! He did very much like some other schools he visited (including CMU - which he liked a lot) but Texas State was the clear #1 for him in terms of feel.
- Money. It plays such a huge role. All the institutions S was admitted to were generous with scholarships and aid (especially CMU) but with the expense involved there was still a significant gap that would have to be filled with loans. We just did not feel that the debt was worth the "name". Beginning actors, even those who book a tour or show immediately, are not well paid initially. I am sure others would have a different answer to this and would do whatever it took to get their child to CMU (or Michigan, or Penn State. etc) but it just didn't work for us.
Had he not had a great feel at a school like he did at Texas State, maybe our answer would be different but he feels so good about TSU and as parents, we know he will have an awesome 4 years there.
In the end, I have faith in the training my S will get at TSU and, most of all, I have faith in my S’s character and talent. For us, the “name” did have a price that we just didn’t think we could (or should) pay.
You can come from the most highly ranked program, have an agent and be AEA/SAG. It won’t make any difference at all if you are a short blonde and they are casting tall dark-haired girls. Same goes for guys if you are on the short and stocky side, you cannot be cast as tall, dark and handsome, no mattter how talented or what your training is. My company has always hired part-time actors as we are located in midtown, they are good to call clients as it is 'learning a role" and we can be flexible for people leaving for gigs/tours. Over the years there have been so many that have come and gone. Sometimes people can go for a year or two without being cast in anything. Sometimes there are those that have the look of the moment along with the talent and they luck out.
Younger d did her first college coaching this year… and the student she coached got into two top programs but it was certainly not a given.
My S is not going to one of the top name programs, but he has gotten great training and is right now rehearsing in his second equity gig, with another lined up for the summer. IPeople whose kids do not have a marquee program among their choices should know that hard work, likeability, talent and willingness to network can do a lot to make up the difference.
I agree @Jkellynh17 and I also believe that those that don’t go to a “popular” program are not playing catch up. The enter the work force just as prepared and eager.
It seems to me that it is possible to become a successful performer from virtually any program (or no program) if you have the talent and the drive. (And I absolutely think the likeability and willingness to work that @jkellynh17 mentions are key). But I don’t believe it has ever HURT anyone to come out of a marquee program. Whether or not an individual thinks that is worth more $$ is up to them.
It certainly doesn’t hurt to come out of a marquee program just as it doesn’t hurt to come out of a non-marquee program. It’s what happens in that audition room and what the casting people are looking for that counts…
Big name schools probably have better industry contacts and ways to open doors. But that is all they can do is open the door. They do not get the actor the job. The actor earns the job in the audition room. I absolutely feel a student must go to a school that is a fit for them. If it’s not a fit, it’s not going to work well no matter what the name is or who has graduated from there. I hope nobody feels pressured to accept big name programs for the sake of the name. I’ve seen some angst on CC for the last couple of years when a poster reveals they turned down a big name program for one less well known or perhaps less proven. It’s ok if that would not have been your choice. But realize going to the lesser known program may be the best choice for that particular student. If they aren’t going to be happy at the big name school, or if its just not the best fit, they shouldn’t go to the big name school. The marquee programs provide fantastic training and do graduate some incredible talent. But that doesn’t mean you can’t be successful from lesser known programs. Your path may be different. It could be harder. But you can still make it. Do your research. Trust your gut. And find the school and program that best fits you.
I am not saying, by the way, that we wouldn’t have moved heaven and earth to pay for CMU if that had been an option, more that people shouldn’t give up if they don’t get in there.
@MTdadandproud Last year my daughter turned down a well known acting BFA program to attend a small LAC and pursue a BA instead. It was all about fit for her. Of course I was starstruck and wanted her to attend the BFA school but only because it was a validation for me (purely the wrong reason). She, of course, was smarter than me and is flourishing in her program. Kudos to you and yours for making the decision that works for you. <3
There only a few kids every year, after all, who even have the opportunity to turn top schools down. (And going to Elon or Texas State is not exactly slumming, in any case. Those are very good schools.)
My D has been away all week at a national college Theatre festival and supposedly all week she’s been asked where is she going to college and of course she has answered as has her other highschool counterpart who notably will be attending one of the biggies while she is not. The reaction has been lukewarm towards her as she describes it and resounding applause and accolades towatds him…( insert moms eye rolls here as D is slightly dramatic) …She has been wrestling with this even as she made her decision and was choosing between her choice school and a biggie…but the temptation to go for the designer label if you will is large and looms brightly overhead. Its been a tough week. Yet she knows she made the right choice for her. Its just hard when friends or family or worse yet teachers or people you look up to arent as excited for your school choice as you"d want them to be as opposed to one of the biggies because they"ve heard of them etc…I told her its just time to get that tougher skin out.next time tell them you are going where Chenoweth and O’Hara went. ask them if they"ve heard of them!!