<p>Say someone was to have 4.0 in a rigorous course load and a 2250+ SAT score, but not an extracurricular to speak of. What schools would still consider them for admission?</p>
<p>This is not about me (I have some EC’s, nothing spectacular though), but I am just curious as to what point stats aren’t good enough.</p>
<p>Honestly, with the state of the educational system in America these days, “good grades” don’t mean as much as they used to. SAT Scores used to be the thing until the CollegeBoard responded to parental whining and reconfigured the system to inflate scores. Those things are still (for now) enough to get you into a state school, but if you are planning to go to grad school, law school, med school etc., you need to get into an elite undergrad (personally, I wouldn’t recommend below T2 for anyone not planning to stop with a Bachelor’s degree) in order to have a fighting chance. </p>
<p>To answer your question more succintly; you can get into most state schools with just good grades and good SAT scores, but if you’re planning to go anywhere higher than bachelor’s degree then you need a solid undergraduate education so that the people at grad school don’t just throw your application away for graduating from a school like Ole Miss.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you are planning to go to law school…plan to get the highest GPA possible…and plan to do well on the LSAT. </p>
<p>If you are planning to go to medical school…plan to get the highest GPA possible and plan to do well on the MCATs. </p>
<p>In both cases…there are PLENTY of students who did the above at schools that were NOT top undergrad schools and got accepted at law and medical schools…and to some mighty fine programs.</p>
<p>And in both cases…remember that your professional school debt will be staggering so you will want to try to keep your undergrad debt as LOW (or nonexistant) as possible.</p>
<p>I’m sorry…but the key to success is NOT necessarily attending a top school. Yes…these are fine schools, but they are not the be all…end all in undergraduate education.</p>
<p>Finances are actually what I was most concerned about. Ivy League colleges have some of the most robust financial aid programs in the United States. A student of means with a high EFC might end up paying much less and having far fewer loans at Princeton than they might at a state school that charges them the full sticker price.</p>
<p>And for many grad schools outside of law and medicine most students manage to get their costs patronized by either an employer (private or state) or by working jobs like TA. </p>
<p>I know it’s not “PC” to say this, but there is a reason why certain schools have prestige and it’s not just because they reject a lot of applicants. The value of a strong undergraduate program can’t be overrated enough; it can equip a student with the tools needed to be the “movers and shakers” (so to speak) of their generation. It’s no coincidence that so many of our Presidents, Supreme Court Justices, and members of Congress are from the same range of colleges…</p>
<p>^ That is true, 25 percent of our Presidents, Supreme Court Justices, and members of Congress are from the Ivy League, but if you’re planning on going to Medical or Law School, getting a 3.0 at Harvard(which in itself is very good) will not be as good as a 3.6 at say a school like UI-Urbana Champaign (a very good state school). Also, for medical school admissions, the research you have done plays a big role in admissions, and in those cases going to a school where you will have more oppurtunites at research (which you don’t necessarily get at most Ivies) will suit you better. You should read this article by the Times to further understand my point:[Who</a> Needs Harvard? - TIME](<a href=“http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1226150,00.html]Who”>http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1226150,00.html).
But yes, if you’re planning to stop at your undergrad, then the quality of education you received will matter. But prestige? No. Reputation? Yes (And yes, there is a difference)</p>
<p>Wow, just wow…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>0987654321 - go to the college board website and plug in the name of a school that interests you. Look up the SAT/ACT and admissions categories and you will get a good feel for an applicants potential.</p>
<p>I still maintain…it is VERY VERY possible to get an excellent college education at places OTHER than “prestigious” schools…whatever that means. If all you are looking at is the name recognition and not the opportunities the school will have for YOU…then you are barking up the wrong tree. There are a number of folks I know who have gone to what Bedouin would view as low life schools for undergrad but then went to Yale, Harvard or Stanford for grad schoool or professional school. One of the most successful doctors I know didn’t go to a prestigious undergrad OR medical school.</p>
<p>Sorry…but if you want to go for prestige, then go for it…but don’t make it sound like any other college choice will short change the student.</p>
<p>AND students with VERY high EFCs will not benefit from the generous financial aid offered by HYPS. That’s for income up to $180K per year with NORMAL assets.</p>
<p>I suggest reading the book “colleges that change lives” by loren pope, he shows how many smaller, liberal arts colleges have outstanding rates of acceptance in terms of their students going to ‘prestigious’ graduate schools. Many of the schools seemed to be much less selective as well.
I’m not trying to sell you on anything, but this book helped me not freak out so much and realize we all have so many options that will lead to a successful life.</p>
<p>try canadian colleges.
schools like McGill, Toronto, UBC, and Queens only consider your grades, and do not look at ECs for admission purposes (they do for scholarships, and college assignments at Toronto etc)</p>
<p>Canadian colleges will be very expensive. Most universities in Canada are public so as an international, you’d be paying the same as you would at a private school in the US but with no financial aid.</p>
<p>I think that somewhere along the line of responses we lost track of OPs question.</p>
<p>There are certainly advantages to going to the most academic/highest reputation and often most selective colleges. But to conclude that this puts the highly qualified and motivated student at a significant career disadvantage for choosing to go to one of the strong state flagship universities is simply not true. In technical fields, such as EE, Computer Science, ME, etc. often the State flagships such as University of Wisconsin Madison, University of Texas Austin, University of Illinois Urbana, and others have exceptional programs. They are rigorous and difficult programs, as one would expect for the discipline. Strong graduates from these schools are very much sought after by major corporations, and often more so than candidates from the top Ivies.</p>
<p>For less quantitative disciplines the private elite colleges may have a better reputation, but very strong graduates from strong public colleges do well – perhaps just as well.</p>
<p>So it is definitely more difficult to adjust academically and socially at the strong state flagships than at the elite private colleges. But for the strong motivated student who navigates the transition effectively the final results are just as good as those at the very best private colleges.</p>
<p>So to answer OPs question, certainly your State Flagship, and with less certainty many excellent private colleges.</p>
<p>@disgradius
International tuition at McGill is between $15,000 and $24,000 depending on program. Private tuition in the US is around $40,000. A BIG difference.</p>
<p>@OP</p>
<p>Probably the top UCs and other big public schools were ECs don’t matter as much.</p>
<p>As others have said, publics (even top publics, if you’re in-state) put a much greater emphasis on stats than personal qualities simply because they don’t have time to evaluate thousands of leadership positions and club memberships. </p>
<p>I’ve also heard on CC (though there is a decent amount of misinformation floating around here) that “lesser” Ivies and T20 schools have very good acceptance rates for the 4.0/2300+ applicant, assuming they haven’t totally lived under a rock for four years. Basically, HYPSM require exceptional ECs, at least in most cases, but just under that group you can find a huge clump of schools who don’t need you to cure cancer. Duke and Dartmouth were specifically mentioned in this comment (of course, this isn’t to say that you don’t need to be in some way exceptional to be accepted to these schools, but rather that being a true academic powerhouse doesn’t always need to be accompanied by jaw-dropping ECs).</p>