It’s not just a few bad apples, it’s a systemic issue. And it’s not just about racism, although racism plays a role. This happened to a friend of a friend a few years ago. Search for “Good Samaritan Backfire”.
What you are missing here is that even if the second wave is “much worse than the first” (by which you presumably mean more people infected) then that still won’t lead to a “stricter and longer SAH than the one we just went through”. That simply wouldn’t be accepted or obeyed by the majority of the population. And it’s why you already see “large minorities of people doing everything and anything they want and not following any guidelines”.
The trigger for the current unrest is not the lockdown (although the combination of economic distress and sheer lack of other things to do is undoubtedly making the destruction worse) but it is demonstrating how you can only govern people if they are willing to accept your authority to do so.
Our future is Sweden, for better or worse…
A better way to respond…
I’m disgusted that we still have a segment of the police force that continues to kill unarmed African Americans at an alarming rate.
If the tide was turned and 4 black officers killed a white man begging for his life, this type of incidence would be cured in a New York minute. No one can dispute that.
We need better leadership from the very top down otherwise nothing will be different 50 years from now.
This wasn’t a “tragedy”, it was a killing…let’s call it what it was…
@TatinG I hear you and understand why you feel the way you do and am so sorry you had to go through it, but please know that black Americans feel that fear for their safety and those of their children EVERY SINGLE DAY. The fears some have had as their grown children made their way home last night can be what many black parents feel when their kids go out on an ordinary day.
Not justifying the looting, and of course there are all kinds of people in every crowd, some with radically different motives, but many might say that concern for property and wealth has been greater than concern for human life in this country. Looting, especially in luxury stores, may be a way of saying to the wealthy oblivious, “You don’t notice innocent people being profiled and killed. Do you feel THAT?” Again, not condoning AT ALL, just pointing out that there are those using these events to foment more trouble and then there are those causing trouble, too, who are desperate to make their rage visible.
When hospitals become overrrun we won’t have a choice. The only reason this didn’t happen already (though it did in NYC) is because we locked down.
We will wait too long to take action in most states and it will be worse. We know this from knowing the history of previous pandemics.
Other countries know the history of pandemics also, which is why they are shutting down places that were opened again.
Just on the other thread a poster from Israeli reported outbreaks in high schools that just reopened are shutting down again. This quick action will prevent it from getting worse.
Protests in our state closed two major highways for a while (84 and 95). Not sure why this had to happen.
I’m all for the right to peacefully protest, but what has been happening in some places the last two days…not peaceful.
@socaldad2002 I don’t think I said this was a tragedy…you quoted me in your post.
It was both a killing…and a tragedy. Nothing good about it at all.
But these riots…they aren’t going to make this better.
@emilybee So you believe we should lockdown until we have a cure or vaccine? Or do you think we should open up slowly and ensure the hospitals are not overwhelmed, understanding that we will get the virus and try to manage that? Or do you feel we should open slowly and immediately go back into full lockdown when it inevitably returns?
Back to the topic of city damage, it does seem that local leadership, by mayors and police chiefs, can make a really big difference in guiding the protest response. We are fortunate that we have sensible and diverse leaders in this city who work together well.
No damage in my city, haven’t even heard of any protests. By design. I grew up in a very racially divisive, dangerous, and poor area, one of the most notorious of all US neighborhoods. Never again will I live in such an area, and I feel I now have the experience and intuition to avoid trouble. Never.
It is not possible to heal the racial divisions in the country because it is not possible to have an honest conversation. So, I am happy to just bow out of what passes for dialogue, and leave it to those who are younger and more idealistic.
I believe we opened up in many places way too early and with very week guidelines and well before the virus was under control. Now we have millions of people all over the country doing everything and anything they want.
We needed a Federal plan like every other country has. But we don’t have that because we are a nation filled with stupid people. The virus doesn’t care about borders.
It will become out of control again because we are acting irresponsibly.
We should have started reopening later and under much tighter controls with much stricter guidelines.
But we didn’t and we will pay a heavy price for that.
When we have to shut down again it will be even worse economically then if we had stayed doing what we were doing longer.
Now, we are totally screwed as we have large numbers of people who won’t be going everywhere and doing anything - hurting businesses that are opening but will lose money and then, have to shut down again. And, there won’t be anymore CARES Act, or extended unemployment insurance the second time around.
The government’s ability to act is constrained by what the population is willing to put up with. It’s right there in the Declaration of Independence:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
Plenty of damage in my metro area, and more threatened. We socially distance dined on the patio of friends last night. She owns a boutique. They are rightfully worried. More “protests” are scheduled for tonight. It doesn’t sound like a protest, it sounds like planned violence, vandalism and looting. Big difference.
Nothing in our quiet small northern new England city – sedate feel-good demonstrations have historically been the norm.
One son in Boston area, his neighborhood has been peaceful, is keeping his eyes open for demonstrations he could join while socially distancing.
Other son in midwestern city, close to city center, heard things escalating and smelled smoke. He was preparing a go-bag in case they needed to evacuate.
99 years ago today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre
I find this quite ironic on a thread about protests erupting because of police murdering black people for no other reason than just being black.
Not exactly on topic but as it’s been discussed here, no there won’t be a more draconian lockdown, or even much of a second wave.
Not only is the virus much less dangerous than advertised, but the public will not tolerate more restrictions than were already imposed.
Wait a few months and you will see I am right.
That was my point. It is unacceptable to the majority of the population. Protests and even riots are a natural consequence. What did the British newspapers say about the Boston Tea Party?
Likewise, locking down the economy again will lead to similar unrest. So it won’t happen. The current unrest has just guaranteed that outcome.
The hashtag #walkwithus is gaining momentum, I am happy to say, as a great example of community engaged policing and local leadership.
If I start thinking “everyone out there is evil and/or stupid” it’s probably time to check myself and start wondering “just on the off chance that they are not evil or stupid, why might they be acting like that?”
Which is exactly what the protests are about. Why might some people have a big issue with heroes who dedicate their lives to serving and protecting us? Well it could be that they hate heroes who dedicate their lives to serving and protecting us. Or it could be that some of those people are not the heroes we’d like them to be.
Which was a great and valuable conversation we were about to have when the riots interrupted us.
@emilybee , you say we are “stupid and selfish” and “a nation filled with stupid people”. Just like the peaceful protesters have some valid points that our local and national leaders should act on, maybe the people you think are stupid and selfish have some valid points as well. You may still have legitimate reasons to disagree with our actions, but calling us stupid and selfish doesn’t help you hear us, or make us care much about what you are saying. You sound scared to me. There is good reason to be scared.
These protests have nothing to do with Covid-19 restrictions.
I think that is an excuse people are using to justify not taking precautions anymore.
The “lockdown” led to a bunch of morons arming themselves and storming state capitols because they couldn’t get a haircut or lawn care products.
We will be in for a world of hurt because we couldn’t act like adults for a little while longer.
Bunch of wusses.