What's the hoopla with independent bookstores?

Parent Cafe
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<p>[clearance-sale-barnes-noble-didnt-evolve-enough:</a> Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance](<a href=“http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110381/clearance-sale-barnes-noble-didnt-evolve-enough?mod=career-leadership]clearance-sale-barnes-noble-didnt-evolve-enough:”>http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110381/clearance-sale-barnes-noble-didnt-evolve-enough?mod=career-leadership)</p>

<p>Before I start - I want to state that I am an avid Kindle fan. I own the K2 and have the K3 on preorder, and can not imagine life without it. However, before I had my Kindle, I loved (and still do) going to Barnes and Nobles and Borders.</p>

<p>People all over have been bawling their eyes out for a long time now over the demise of the independent bookstore. First a decade or two ago when the big chains entered the scene (like in the movie “You’ve Got Mail”) and now with e-book readers rendering severe damage to even these mega-corps.</p>

<p>I have to say, what is the big deal with small independent grandpa-run bookstores? Really gross falling-apart books, cramped claustrophobic aisles, dim artificial basement lighting, bad air, and expensive prices make for nowhere near better of an experience than going into a Barnes and Noble. Lot’s of people say they like the smell of books. Call me devil, but I for sure do not like to smell decades old mold and rotting/decomposing organic matter.</p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

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<p>Are you referring to used bookstores? I don’t think the books at an independent bookstore are that old… I try to support non-chain stores as much as possible and feel better about putting my dollars into a local business than Borders/B&N. Also, one independent bookstore near me has a great cafe. That said, the chains are bigger, can have more stock (though independent stores sometimes have better selections) and can have better sales going on.</p>

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<p>You are describing (some) used bookstores. In them could also be found great treasures, if you knew what you were looking for. The dustier the better, as it meant the stock hadn’t been gone through recently, and you could sometimes find first editions that hadn’t been repriced in decades. Those places have almost vanished, and I miss them. </p>

<p>But independent bookstores like the one in You’ve Got Mail generally carry new books, with perhaps a few rare or out-of-print volumes as well. They usually charge full retail price for new books (which, BTW, is only 40% over wholesale), but they are clean and well-lit with - the most important part - very knowledgeable salespeople, instead of kids who look at you blankly when you ask about anything other than the latest bestseller.</p>

<p>Shopping in those sorts of places was personal and often led to the discovery of books you didn’t know existed. Scrolling through Amazon listings (and I buy a <em>lot</em> of books from them, although I don’t own a Kindle) isn’t the same as pulling a book off the shelf because the dust jacket looks intriguing. There are far fewer of those serendipitous discoveries in the world of e-commerce. It’s the end of an era, and a sad one.</p>

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<p>Sorry - yes I mean used bookstores. At least in the places I’ve always lived in - all the independent bookstores ARE used bookstores. The only independent new bookstores tend to be the type of ones crowded around college campuses. These types offer a pretty good experience, but don’t tend to have as much stock as a big corporate store.</p>

<p>And besides, the question of stock/inventory size is irrelevent now as e-commerce has all beat hands down. Yes I do suppose that when all brick-and-mortar stores hit the sack, I will miss the feeling of simply browsing down an aisle and picking up stuff that look interesting - but I found it is far more advantageous to research the books and read reviews on the internet before picking a book. As libraries have digitalized their collections in the past years (goodbye Dewey!) I find that even with library trips, I’ve gotten more in the habit of checking their catalogue to see what’s in stock before I even go there, and then requesting them on my account so they are ready to pick up when I get there.</p>

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<p>I have to say, what is the big deal with small independent grandpa-run bookstores?</p>

<p>Same thing there is with only shopping at Krogers/QFC/FredMeyer etc</p>

<p>Or think of how the K-12 textbook industry is mostly interested in what CA& TX want.
Do you want Texas to pick the textbooks for your little town in Conn?</p>

<p>I have a favorite ice cream vendor, but he isn’t big enough to be stocked at certain grocery chains who want enough for * all* their chains to carry the same thing.
However, he can make enough for a small chain to sell it.</p>

<p>The Pulitzer prize for fiction this year, ( I’m reading it now), was published by a small press- if only mammoth bookstores existed, it would have never been published, because the small publishers wouldn’t have been able to compete.</p>

<p>[‘Tinkers&#8217</a>; by Paul Harding: The One That Got Away - Paper Cuts Blog - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://papercuts.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/the-one-that-got-away/]‘Tinkers’”>'Tinkers' by Paul Harding: The One That Got Away - The New York Times)</p>

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<p>Not sure what “hoopla” you are referring to, but I think the death of independent stores period, are being lamented. I love bookstores but if there is no difference from one to another then there is no tingle of anticipation or sense of mystery. With an independent store you never know what’s going to be in there. </p>

<p>Son’s of my friends opened up a small used bookstore in a little town nearby and it’s doing very well. You probably won’t find the latest John Grisham there but if you go by on a Friday night you can find a small local band playing and can pick up a classic old book for a quarter of the price it’s selling for at B & N, if they even have it in stock.</p>

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<p>I visited a newer independent, used book sale in my area recently. What you described above was it to a tee! Mountains, piles, boxes, semi-organized shelves, containers EVERYWHERE - it was way overstimulating and not a pleasant experience to me. And the prices - I guess I’m not the best customer because I firmly believe in and use the library for most of my reading choices, but I guess I really expected better prices. I left with 2 books (mostly felt obligated after I spent 20 minutes talking with the staff person about how they operate, etc.) one hardcover and one paperback for $16 - really? I think I’ll stick with the library!</p>

<p>On the other hand, there is nothing more relaxing to me than to spend an hour (or more) in my local B and N - absolutely LOVE that store - the space, the organization, the decor, the cafe :slight_smile: - it all screams LOVE THIS! to me.</p>

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<p>“I love bookstores but if there is no difference from one to another then there is no tingle of anticipation or sense of mystery. With an independent store you never know what’s going to be in there.”</p>

<p>Hahaha yes! You never know when you will run into 15 year old dried nasal droppings on the insides of hardbacks, suspicious dark red smears on pages, dangled up cat hairballs to which I am allergic to on the floor, asthma attacks due to horrible ventilation, and panic attacks from creaky infrastructures that seem to able to fall at any given moment…</p>

<p>;)</p>

<p>I think I’d much rather go to B&N thank you. Sure it may be sterile and cold and too ‘perfect’, but the physical experience is so much better.</p>

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<p>Emeraldkitty - I actually read Tinkers on my Kindle! Not too bad of a book I must say.</p>

<p>But besides that and more on your tangent, I honestly have to put forth the notion - that with the introduction of the Amazon Kindle and the online bookstore platform that goes along with it, the opportunity to have greater access to and support for indie authors has easily trumped anything offered by independent/used bookstores by far! Anybody familiar with the Kindle reading community can vouch to the fact the ‘Kindlers’ spend large amounts of their time reading low priced, self-published, and high quality literature only made possible due to e-commerce. Some even predict that this is the future of publishing - indie authors who write books directed at an ereader audience.</p>

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<p>I am lucky enough to live in a tourist town which has supported an independent bookstore for over 30 years. I completely hate the chain bookstores. the indie has clerks my age who love to read, love to talk about boos,know my taste and recommend books and have known my kids since they were babies. The kindle or the chain borders don’t give that experience and never will. I feel the same about our indie coffee shops. Would rather go there than starbucks any day.</p>

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<p>I am reading Tinkers on my ipod, but I maintain my contention that if not for smaller- non chain bookstores- many books will go unpublished & unread.</p>

<p>You go into Barnes and Noble & you get the latest published books- that’s pretty much it. Along with CD/games, magazines that the masses will read- various tchotskes that have some affiliation with reading & sales clerks in the children’s section who don’t know who Maurice Sendak is! I am not kidding :frowning: this happened to me a while back in the B&N by the UW in Seattle.</p>

<p>I like reading on my ipod touch, but many of the books don’t even have a table of contents ( like my french recipe cookbook? what is up with that ? :stuck_out_tongue: ) & have limited usefulness besides reading linearly.</p>

<p>( also don’t like Starbucks- I probably go in there 1:10 ratio over indie coffee shops)</p>

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<p>“but I maintain my contention that if not for smaller- non chain bookstores- many books will go unpublished & unread.”</p>

<p>True that may be - but actually even indie bookstores pale in comparison to the Kindle bookstore when it comes to publishing (and more importantly, selling!) indie authors! Not even a contest.</p>

<p>So while maybe the one thing I may feel guilty about in my harsh dismissal of indie/used bookstores is the detriment to indie authors - that is all completely alleviated by my Kindle! :D</p>

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<p>Mmm, I love independent bookstores because a lot of them in my area (D.C. and Baltimore) are organized around a special interest. For example, Red Emma in Baltimore has a lot of feminist literature, in addition to weird science fiction, international literature, African American literature, political books, poetry, philosophy, and so forth. Also, small independent bookstores (including Red Emma) carry a lot of national, college, and local magazines (“zines”) that you wouldn’t find in a Barnes and Nobles, certainly. The local zines help provide a place for the local community to connect, and if you’re some kind of political advocate, Red Emma is one place where you can discover what the neighborhood anarchists, socialists, sci fi nerds, and feminists are saying.</p>

<p>Aside from zines, though, special interest and independent bookstores are great for connecting the community in other ways: they’re a place to hear lectures, attend mixers and other specialized events around your interest, sit down for a bite to eat, listen to local music, and so forth. They feel like your store, a place where you could socialize and meet genuine people.</p>

<p>Alternatively, independent bookstores can have a “generic” stock, but their selections tend to reflect the flavor and culture of the town, and the salespeople are very passionate about their stock and can recommend you books the way good fashion consultants recommend clothes. So I feel like when you pay for a book at a independent bookstore, you’re getting the benefit of the expertise of the staff. Paying that extra money is like giving them a tip; it’s like going to a niche restaurant where you’re paying for the food, the atmosphere, and the service, in a way. But yes, they are expensive. Frankly, all books are expensive, whether you’re going to BN.com or Amazon. They are a luxury item, pure and simple. I realized this after I started living on a $500 a month budget this summer, and now I don’t think I’ll be going anywhere but the library. When I do have dollars, I’m going to try to buy my books at an independent store because I’ll feel like I’m supporting the community and the people who work there.</p>

<p>Used bookstores: yes, they can be gross. But I think the key to understanding used stores is that they’re for the nerdy book collectors among us, the ones who would squeal with delight on discovering droves of books from our favorite genre at $0.50 a pop, or that one rare volume of the first printing of Lord of the Rings. As for the moldy smell…I used to like it, and then I decided I’d had enough of it and I threw all those books out :)</p>

<p>As for Kindle…I dunno, the screen hurts my eyes and I have 20/20 vision. A lot of books, such as textbooks, don’t transfer over properly to the Kindle at the moment. But the reason I’m really grouchy about it is because to me, there is no substitute for the great feel and look of paper, the different kinds of weight that the pages of a book can have. But I guess Kindles will be green in the long run.</p>

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<p>& have limited usefulness besides reading linearly</p>

<p>This part really sucks about the electronic versions- </p>

<p>Besides if no indie bookstores that take used books- where I am going to sell all my hardback copies of Elizabeth George & Earl Emerson?</p>

<p>Not to mention where am I going to find a manual for a color classic?
;)</p>

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<p>I actually have the best of book worlds because I work at a library that has an attached used book store. We have patrons that come in daily with their used books. We don’t take smelly or tattered books, and actually our friends son’s (with their small bookstore) don’t either. I know that old book stores can smell a bit, but that’s not true for them all. There are different kinds of used book stores. Some are just like flea markets but many, like the ones I just mentioned are clean and pleasant. Perhaps you need to look around a bit more ucigrad.</p>

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<p>I used to live in a town with a great (new) independant book store. I liked it because they would highlight interesting books, not just the run of the mill best sellers. And the clerks would make great recommendations, based on your preferences, or even just on a whim.</p>

<p>I find I get overwhelmed at Barnes and Noble. Too large, and I don’t find the layout conducive to scoping out interesting or different things that I might not know I want.
Plus book prices in general make me buy fewer books. I keep mostly to the library or paperbacks. I am thinking of getting a Kindle, now that the prices are coming down.</p>

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<p>Plus book prices in general make me buy fewer books.</p>

<p>Just thought of another thing.
When you buy from B&N et.al, the $$$ goes to whereever their headquarters is-with independent booksellers, it stays in the community.</p>

<p>But also
Tables & tables of the latest Dan Brown & Clive Cussler?</p>

<p>Gag me with a spoon.
;)</p>

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<p>The saddest part of the demise of independent book sellers has been the effect on books for kids. I wanted to buy some books for my grandniece, a beginning reader. Borders’ stock was absolutely appalling. Half of it was kitschy stuff with a “tie in” to a TV show or movie.</p>

<p>I “know” many children’s books so I came home and ordered books on-line. The selection was a lot better. In the old days, before B&N and Borders drove a lot of independents out of business, there were some wonderful small book stores filled with children’s books. They did just about everything to attract business, but failed because they just couldn’t compete price-wise with the chains. Kindle just doesn’t work for young readers. First, the illustrations are very important–they provide clues to beginners. Second, most people aren’t going to let a 6 or 7 year old walk around with one. </p>

<p>NYC has some wonderful independent book stores. The mystery one in Greenwich Village is great. Much better selection that a B&N or Borders and the staff can made good recommendations. Again, B&N or Borders staff don’t KNOW the books in the same way. </p>

<p>I love my Kindle too–in part because it has some old time books that are hard to find in bookstores and, or course, some are free. And I’ve downloaded and read some free new books too. </p>

<p>One thing I don’t like about the Kindle is that I can’t download and read the ebooks from the library on it. Apparently you can do that on the Nook, which would make it tempting for me. </p>

<p>I hope the author of the article is right and the independents will bloom again.I’m willing to pay for the service, especially when it comes to buying books for gifts. “I’m looking for a book for a man who reads about the Civil War a lot. He’s read all the usual suspects. Any lesser known books you’d recommend?” Or “I need a cook book for a guy living on his own for the first time. What do you suggest?” Independents often give great advice.</p>

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<p>I agree jonri, on the e-library thing. Even on devices capable of the feature such as Nook and Sony Daily, it’s very crippled, and the e-stock of most libraries and severely limited. Publishers are too worried about piracy for it to truly hit the mainstream. You also can’t borrow a title from your library if someone else has it out, just like with real books.</p>

<p>But I do wish for the day when library e-book capability truly arrive and is ready for mass consumption. It’s coming, but not quite here yet.</p>

<p>“I’m willing to pay for the service, especially when it comes to buying books for gifts. “I’m looking for a book for a man who reads about the Civil War a lot. He’s read all the usual suspects. Any lesser known books you’d recommend?” Or “I need a cook book for a guy living on his own for the first time. What do you suggest?” Independents often give great advice.”</p>

<p>You can just as easy get recommendations like that even quicker, wider ranging, and more accurate on the internet.</p>

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<p>I’m a technophile, but I don’t think I will ever purchase a Kindle/Nook. There’s just something about holding a book in your hands, not to mention the smell of the paper and ink in a new book (yeah, I’m a nerd). Also, I definitely prefer book stores to online sites - I can’t tell you how many times I’ve picked up a book because I saw it in the store and it looked interesting.</p>

<p>I don’t think there are any independent book stores in the area that sell new books, but there is a fantastic used book store in the area with a few stores throughout the state. They may use old wooden crates for their shelves, but everything’s pretty organized by section and author; it’s not anything like what was previously described in the thread - dingy, dusty, dirty books.</p>

<p>I’m also a fan of the used book store because I learned to read at a young age and was a voracious reader - I went through the whole children’s section at our small public library. After that, I remember my parents taking me to the book store and picking out lots of good-looking books…</p>