http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/16/politics/f-35-jsf-operational-costs/ Here you go @belknappoint. You should read the whole article I guess it is finally operational to some degree. It is only 200 billion over budget
But wait, you said that the plane has never flown. In fact, it first flew years ago and has accumulated thousands of flight hours through its development.
You see, this is an example of why I concluded that you are ignorant about national security matters and the U.S. military. You make (or parrot) statements that have no basis in fact. You just don’t know what the reality is, and you get even the most basic things wrong.
Is your logic that if there are more cops on patrol on a daily basis than there are military personnel engaged in hostile combat, that must mean that a cop’s job is more dangerous than that of a soldier in combat? Bad facts AND faulty logic.
@BelknapPoint I think you are missing the point. The F-35 has taken 15 years to be a little operational and that only happened a couple of months ago. Test flites don’t really count in my book. It has hundred of billions of dollars of cost over runs. It has also been highly criticized for its functionality or lack thereof. John McCain a war hero has criticized it. He is the head of the armed services committee in the Senate. He has called it “one of the great national scandals” Do you trust his opinions? Justin Trudeau the new prime minister of Canada has said that it is a waste of money. Do you trust his opinions?
The military does not have the exclusive right to determine how much of this countrys money should be spent on defense.
You promised to answer my questions and have not so let me try again.
“can you please tell us how many military personnel today are engaged in hostile combat? And how many policeman today put their life on the line when they go out on patrol?”
What is the justification for a 6 Billion dollar a year attach submarine??? Who is it attacking??
What is the justification for the US with 5 per cent of the worlds population paying for 40 per cent of the worlds military budget.
Perhaps the biggest question is are you still employed in the military industrial complex or the iron triangle?
You can keep calling me stupid and ignorant but that doesn’t address any of the real issues. Since you claim to be so knowledge maybe you can enlighten all of us.
I am not against military spending in its entirety just wasteful military spending. Those are two completely different concepts. I seem to have a lot in common with the war hero John McCain and the prime minister of Canada
"Firefighters and policemen are probably in more danger than the military if that is your argument. I value all people who serve their country? Do you not think that firemen serve their country?
,can you please tell us how many military personnel today are engaged in hostile combat? And how many policeman today put their life on the line when they go out on patrol?"
Funny how you observe the risk that policemen take, claiming it’s more than soldiers in combat, and then say:
" Lots of cops make 100k per year. Many of them are grossly overpaid. We have the largest prison population in the world. We dont need that.
The people who feel the most entitled are the one percenters who want to keep all the wealth to themselves. We need to be investing in education and infra structure not in bombs. Teachers should make twice as much as cops not the other way around"
I guess cops, along with military people should just shut up and be paid as little as possible, while risking their lives, while you aren’t. And by the way, paying for your education.
@tiger1307 please watch this video to find out why we need those subs
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/many-ballistic-missile-submarines-u-s-really-need/
Want to talk about the $12 Billion+ spent on one aircraft carrier next?
@busdriver11 you make lots of assumptions that are not accurate. What I keep saying over and over is that many of our priorities in this country are wrong. I never said that cops and the military should just shut up. What I did say is that we pay way too much for many of the services such as the military and housing way too large of a prison population. I guess it is easier to insult me than address the issues facing this country but it is very counter productive. Are you perfectly happy with spending 100s of billions of dollars on planes that are referred to as “one of the nations great scandals”? Are you perfectly happy with having the largest prison population in the world. Why dont you simply address the issues
No, I understand the agenda you are promoting. My point is that your arguments lack any level of credibility when you don’t even have a basic grasp of the facts.
“Test flites (sic) don’t really count”??? Is that your mea culpa for claiming that the F-35 “has never been flown”? We’re talking years of test flights and thousands of flight hours here. The fact is, you were commenting on a weapons program that you knew nothing about. This is a highly complex and technically revolutionary aircraft. The CNN story that you linked to says as much. That article also concludes with this comment from the neutral GAO official who reviewed the program: “It is going to be a great aircraft…”
I used to, until he picked his VP running mate in 2008.
I know nothing about the guy (I’m ignorant about him!); why should I place any value in what he says or does without any context?
Oh boy, someone is going to have to sit you down and give you a lesson on how military (and all other government) appropriations work. Do you think that the Pentagon makes a list of demands, gives that to Congress, and the military automatically gets whatever it wants? Do you think that, just maybe, elected representatives have something to do with the process?
Why does the number, in either category, have anything to do with the relative danger of the particular profession? Does the average cop on duty in America have a more dangerous day than the average U.S. Army infantryman who is engaged in hostile operations in Afghanistan?
You are asking the wrong question. You should be asking, “who and what is it defending, and from whom and what.” Did you read the link that I provided in post #215? No? Ok, do that first. Then do a Wiki search for “attack submarine” or “SSN” to educate yourself. Feel free to post any follow-up questions that you have.
More homework: learn about and understand why Sea Lines of Communication (SLOC) are critical to the world’s (and the U.S.) economy. Learn about and understand the position of the United States as a leader and defender of democratic principles and human rights in the post World War II era. Are we perfect? By no means, but we’re better than just about any other country out there. I make no apologies for my view of American exceptionalism.
Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwv-dndrMDE
Why is this the “biggest question”? And why is it any of your business?
Sorry, not “all of us” need to be enlightened.
Yes they are, but before you separate the two, you need to be smart enough to figure out which is which.
Oh, really? Are you a war hero, too?
“@busdriver11 you make lots of assumptions that are not accurate. What I keep saying over and over is that many of our priorities in this country are wrong. I never said that cops and the military should just shut up. What I did say is that we pay way too much for many of the services such as the military and housing way too large of a prison population. I guess it is easier to insult me than address the issues facing this country but it is very counter productive. Are you perfectly happy with spending 100s of billions of dollars on planes that are referred to as “one of the nations great scandals”? Are you perfectly happy with having the largest prison population in the world. Why dont you simply address the issues”
I didn’t insult you. I mostly just quoted you. I agree there are far too many people in prison, thought that was supposed to change over the last six years. Apparently not. I am not happy about any waste of taxpayer dollars, whether it is bloated military spending or government agencies, Medicare fraud, political pork, any of it. Because it is money that belongs to the taxpayers, it should be spent very carefully.
However, I am not naïve enough to think that we can just massively shrink military spending and withdraw our presence from everywhere in the world, so we can give away freebies for all. We have someone in charge who thought we could do just that, and unfortunately, we can’t just curl up on our couch and think it doesn’t affect us. We abandoned Iraq, and look at what the world got. ISIS, and millions of refugees flooding into Europe.
I also don’t have the fantasy that we can make a small number of people pay for the freebies for all. There just aren’t enough of them, take away too much of their money, and they stop working or decide to retire. All the “tax the rich” schemes end up being a “tax everyone” scheme. Taxing the poor and middle class to pay for free private school for wealthy kids doesn’t sound like a good plan to me.
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@zoosermom I am not saying we should have no military. I am saying our military budget should be more in line with other world powers. We have 5 per cent of the world population. How about we spend 20 per cent of the total world military expenses. What do you think?
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Oh brother.
And, to claim that there’s “excessive waste” is ridiculous. Any large entity has waste. You have waste in your own household spending. Excessive is another matter.
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pentagon runs 234 golf courses around the world, they own a 80 million ski resort in the alps,
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and, I’m glad that they do!
Do you think our military shouldn’t have access to protected R&R facilities??? Do you think these people should be treated like slaves…all work and no play?
They likely also have bowling alleys, fully-equipped gyms, etc. So glad that they do!
I hope they own more than one ski resort…one is not enough!!! Build or buy more!
BTW…the kids that you want to have free education would have fab gyms and other very nice faciities available to THEM on their campuses…and they wouldn’t be serving their country.
Everyone can argue and complain all they want about military spending but here’s the facts: 17% of the budget goes to the military, compared to 51% to medicare/medicaid/obamacare.
What’s going to happen if we do cut military spending? At a time when mobs are screaming “death to America” and burning our flags? Sure, nothing could happen. Or something could happen. There is NO denying that either one of these outcomes are possible.
So, you have to ask yourself a question: are you willing to risk it? And not just for yourself, but for your parents, your children, your friends. Yes, we spend a ton of money on the military. But we spend a tons on other things as well.
Maybe the fact that we have such a large military budget isn’t because we’re wasteful or overly concerned. Maybe it’s because we love our fellow Americans and don’t want to see them die in another 9/11, or another event like the devastating loss in Paris.
All I know is that my brother is serving our country. He has not met any of you, yet he is willing to die for each an every one of you. Even those of you who are saying that he’s doing the wrong thing, or that he’s a bad/violent person, or that he doesn’t deserve as much as the students marching around in between their classes. That’s how much he cares; and I could not be prouder of him.
Nevermind… too political. Carry on.
My house is a 4br $85,000. Moving to a 5br $190k home by God’s grace.
$1,000,000 oh my Goodness… so… poor tears…
Should’ve played D1 sports lmao
Should’ve went to a in-state public university.
Should’ve sold your house to pay for college.
Okay, specifically how large should our prison population be?
And before you answer, make sure you understand how people often plea down before going to jail (so just because they are in jail for X, they may have decided to plea down to avoid the risk of trial for something they were actually guilty of, say 10x. And keep in mind that violent crime has steadily declined over the last 40 or so years.
I don’t think this necessarily makes Northeastern a bad school- every place has their rotten apples. I agree that excessive debt and tuition are a problem, but if her family could afford a million dollar house but had to take out $150,000 in student loans, they obviously had their priorities screwed up and need to take responsibility for that.
While the video sucked, some parents of that income band do prefer to not fund their kids’ education. It’s part of the whole idea of making them “learn where their family came from.” Unfortunately, tuition is not quite $1000/ semester anymore…
To the dreamers on this thread:
- Unfortunately it is extremely easy to pass on the burden to someone with more resources than you. However, it is their money, not yours. The occupy wall street movement achieved nothing. Neither will you.
- It is also very easy to blame your own lack of fortunes on exploitation by the rich 1% or 0.1% or whatever. Instead, put your head down, work and justify your existence. Being parasitical is not welcome.
- This disease afflicts most teens who only believe the tripe dished out by politicians who cant count or are too idealistic to think about real life (like warren or bernie). Someone has to pay for all this - you can't force others to shell out for your dreams.
- Money does not grow on trees - if you do not have the resources to afford to go to an expensive college, don't go. Taking on huge debt to go to a private then agitating to have it cancelled is not an option. Live within your means.
- There are numerous rags to riches success stories - your generation should focus on developing skills instead of finding scapegoats. This is a bigger issue in this generation of kids
- Welfare states always collapse. Period. We can not keep making things free - eventually people with resources will get their resources out and there is nothing you can do to not let that happen except create a system that is fair.
There are a few comments:
- Read up about the F-35 - it is an inferior machine in certain roles, well below the capabilities of our existing warbirds. This was screwed up by trying to make 1 jet for the AF, Marines and Navy - it is too compromised as a result and that is why it has had insane delays and cost overruns. Some people need to be fired for this. But that is another story.
Also, our military expenditure is too high and unfocused for the age we are in. None of our troops on the ground efforts in recent times have truly succeeded (Iraq, Afghanistan were both failures and would have been failures even if we stayed on with full force till today - there is no such thing as mission accomplished when you are in someone else’s playground) - we need better air, navy, cruise missiles, electronic warfare and covert ops - sending in armies was last useful during the Korean war. The reason our military expenditure is so high is because we stick to a dinosaur philosophy which is no longer effective except in places like Nicaragua.
- College costs are astonishingly high as a %age of median family income. This is untenable. Something does need to be done about it. Most colleges these days have extremely huge administrative costs - too much support staff, too few teachers, same thing holds true of bureaucratic bloat at healthcare insurance providers. Meanwhile college endowments are at stratospheric levels - funding neither tuitions nor spending enough on research that helps us all. The problem lies at the educational institutions not with the 1%. How about occupying colleges to bring down their tuition costs? Maybe the online educational movement will make a dent? Either way, getting more of Bill Gates' money is not the solution. But making colleges competitive and efficient might be a part of the solution
- Most of the financial fraud related to the subprime crisis was done at the ground level with complicity of mortgage brokers, real estate agents and actual homeowners. How many of those were imprisoned? Banks should have had better risk controls but anyone who believes bankers alone created this mess is a liar. Also does no one remember how the banks were being forced by the congress to increase loans to the financially disadvantaged just months prior to the crisis?
- We do have too many people in prisons - which is also a drain on the economy. I am not educated enough on this topic except to know that something is wrong.
- Entitlement costs are becoming a dangerous proportion of our economy - look at the collapse of various state finances - NJ, CA, IL... why do we continue to not handle the elephant in the room? We can not afford to pay the same social security benefits in this age of longer post retirement lives, lower market returns and so on. Unfortunately grandma and grandpa are also bankrupting the system and leaving a mess for our kids. And until we address this, blaming obamacare alone is hypocritical.
Yes, the feeling of entitlement-I guess the above post(screed?) would qualify, as in the last six months, a total of two people-including 11:46-have posted. And it’s the classic “kids these days” rant. So yes, there is a certain generation which feels entitled to blather on about any and all topics so long as there is a captive audience.