Incidentally, China in the 1930’s was not Communist or remotely socialist in its policies or governmental system. That came in 1949.
In any event, one doesn’t necessarily need to go to the extremes of the USSR or Post-'49 Maoist China.
Many of Sanders’ current platform is very reminiscent of FDR’s New Deal policies of the '30s which were popular enough to get him elected to multiple terms.
Also, in many parts of Western Europe or in Scandinavia, Sanders’ policies/platforms would be considered only slightly left of center or by some, even centrist.
I think it’s important to not to paint the Greek system with too broad a brush, which is one of the reasons why I appreciated the original article. My daughter went off to college with a definite anti-Greek bias, but changed her mind after meeting girls in sororities at her school. Her feelings were definitely mixed when she ultimately decided to rush second semester. Apparently, she’s not the only one. At her school, less than 5% of incoming freshmen express an interest in Greek life, but actual Greek participation is around 25% for women (slightly less for men). I think she would have been more open to the experience if she had had more exposure to opinions like the one in the article that started this discussion.
In my generation, in the places and among the people I knew, calling yourself a feminist and joining a sorority seemed pretty mutually exclusive. In my kids' generation, as far as I am aware none of the people who identify as feminists were sorority members.
But that doesn't mean that sorority members couldn't become feminists later, or that there is anything inherently anti-feminist about sororities. I can easily imagine people who consider themselves feminists joining sororities in only a slightly different world, and maybe that slightly different world is what exists today, or even what existed in places I knew nothing about years ago. I certainly agree that the founding generation of most sororities qualified as what we would consider first-wave feminists.
The support for Bernie Sanders among young people seems extensive enough that the simple fact of supporting him doesn't imply much about anyone's political views beyond that they are probably not registered Republicans.
While most historians…including many feminists…especially in the third wave would acknowledge that the contributions of first wave feminists in women’s rights and some issues should be acknowledged, they’d feel there should also be a corresponding acknowledgement of some problematic and regressive attitudes and actions among many first-wave feminists in the US/UK* to advance their cause and make those contributions which threw Black and other racial minorities.
Emmeline Pankhurst was a staunch advocate of Western colonialism as shown by a following quote of hers which epitomized the patronizing "White Man's burden" mentality prevalent among staunch conservatives in favor of European colonialism:
Ironic as this was in a period when anti-colonialist movements were proliferating around the world…even in the UK.
While the idea of a feminist sorority is commendable, I feel this article’s depiction is one-sided. It ignores some inconvenient details (Kappa Alpha Theta has been accused of slut-shaming and featuring reprehensible comments about another sorority in a video for new pledges). It makes a virtue of going on holiday to Cabo - a well-known party resort - and offering lectures on the evils of twerking to adults who are there by choice. It fails to mention that not one sister pictured in this article is fat, ugly, or unfashionable, and the cost of a sorority excludes those who can’t afford to add thousands of dollars to their university expenses (through, say, spring break in Cabo). The Theta sisters may be feminists in some respects, but that doesn’t make judging others’ personal worth by their attractiveness and their checkbooks any more defensible.
Going to Cabo is not a requirement. Plenty of well-to-do students in colleges without Greek systems go to Cabo, other party places, or nice spring breaks. What’s the difference? Where do you get off suggesting they “judge each other’s worth by their checkbooks”? Or is the classic jealousy of “people who can afford something I can’t must be shallow and superficial”?
I never went to any party-spring break with my sorority sisters. I went to Aspen with my family to go skiing. Is that better or worse than a warm weather resort?
“It fails to mention that not one sister pictured in this article is fat, ugly, or unfashionable”
How do you suppose they should mention that in the article? Susie Q, a 20 year old sophomore who is butt-ugly and wears a size 16, says she loves her sorority because …"?
Guess what. It’s normal for young girls to be of normal weight (because it hasn’t quite caught up to them like it has for us middle age folks) and to enjoy looking attractive and fashionable. There’s no virtue in being frumpy and dumpy. Especially at age 20 when you’ve got the raw material.
" It ignores some inconvenient details (Kappa Alpha Theta has been accused of slut-shaming and featuring reprehensible comments about another sorority in a video for new pledges). "
I’m actually more ok with slut-shaming than I am with promiscuity promotion. What video are you referring to - Theta at this school, or another?
At the low end, that’s $2380 over four years, assuming a sorority member doesn’t spend a dime above and beyond dues. AOII members could be on the hook for $7,000-$8,000. With the state of aid for students who can’t pay that cost, sororities are fencing out any student who can’t afford those dues.
This issue isn’t limited to Columbia, of course, but it’s always a caveat when a sorority (or, though this rarely happens, a fraternity) is held up as a haven of progressive thought.
Yes, organizations that provide programming and services to members are going to cost money. There’s no real way around that. I don’t know how to solve that. I assure you we were not a “rich girl’s group”; I had plenty of sisters who were on FA, did work-study, etc.
“A common criticism of sororities has been that they exclude students on the basis of their appearance. At Kappa Alpha Theta, diversity in this respect seems limited.”
Or maybe that isn’t the case, but the reporter didn’t feel the need to mention that fact, and none of the pictures in this article suggest otherwise.
It was Theta at Columbia all right. Here’s a report from Columbia’s student blog - this was barely two months ago.
Well, that’s not very kosher. I will now commence to Theta-shame
I will cop to the fact that I do tend to look at the physical appearance of people when I befriend them. Not to suggest that I move in a circle of fashion models, but I did tend to be attracted to girls who were “like me” insofar as they were dressed reasonably au courant, paid attention to their appearance, etc. I probably would not really be drawn to someone who smoked, or who was grossly overweight at such a young age, or who had tattoo sleeves or looked like Robert Smith of the Cure, or who had ear gauges, or whose boobs hung out of their tight clothing. This will be, of course, misinterpreted to suggest I made potential friends submit their modeling portfolio, which of course is not true. But yeah, we all do select and filter based on personal presentation. Whether it’s pearls and monograms, or Sex Pistols t-shirts.
Emmeline Pankhurst felt exactly the same way to the point of breaking all ties with her daughter Sylvia for having a child out of wedlock because she refused to marry his father as she rejected the concept of a marriage contract.
There were also conflicts which epitomized the mixed progressive record of first-wave feminists such as:
Emmeline Pankhurst and Christabel Pankhurst oriented the feminist movement they led on upper/upper-middle class values which Sylvia rejected as being too narrow and ignored the plight of working-class and poor women and people.
There was also a vehement disagreement over the fact the Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst not only postponed their feminist movement for the sake of WWI, but were vehemently pro-war to the point of being involved in the “White Feather” campaign in which women handed out white feathers to young men who weren’t dressed in a uniform to shame them for their supposed cowardice by not enlisting to fight.
Sylvia disagreed with postponing the movement, the pro-war stance of her mother and sister, and their involvement in the “White Feather” campaign.
Ironically, this campaign targeted many young men who also didn’t have the right to vote due to age(under 21) and/or because they didn’t own enough property to meet the minimum property qualifications to vote.
More ironically, there were many incidents of those legitimately exempt from military service or soldiers/sailors who happened to be home on leave receiving white feathers because they weren’t in uniform. One infamous example was Navy sailor George Samson who was given a white feather while en route in civilian clothes to a public reception in his honor for having won the Victoria Cross for gallantry during the Gallipoli campaign.
Also, one of her other sisters, Adela who was initially as left-ward politically as Sylvia up until the very beginning of the '20s veered hard right from the late '20s onward. She was one of the founders of the fascist oriented Australia First party which was anti-Semitic and advocated allying with the fascist Axis powers during WWII. She ended up being interned by the Australian authorities and the Australia First organization suppressed in the early '40s for direct ties to Imperial Japan during the war.
Thanks @NotVerySmart, I was going to mention the same thing. The cost to join these groups tends to exclude those who are at the university on financial aid and without that sort of discretionary income. One of the FAQs at one of the schools outright states that those who think the dues may be a problem should look into getting a job to fund them or to consider whether they really want to pursue rush. I wonder to what extent these groups do become a group of privileged young women and to what extent they give up the opportunities to bond with those who live different sorts of lives. That, plus the inherent exclusionary nature of the groups, leave me feeling a little uncomfortable.
I’m very intrigued by the notion that slut-shaming is bad. I wouldn’t have wanted to be in a house known for slutty girls. Having pride in yourself and helping your sisters realize there’s a classier world than sleeping with every guy with a **** seems like a good thing, not a bad one.
Some activities cost more than others; that’s life. I would imagine the ski club members have to cover the costs of equipment, lift tickets, travel, etc. That also requires discretionary income. If you can’t afford it, then you can’t afford it.
edit: WTH do the Pankhurst family dramas and WWI have to do with this discussion?
cobrat, all of that is very interesting, but it does ZIP ZERO NADA to discredit women’s suffrage! Anyone with the slightest appreciation of history and the slightest ability to think critically is fully aware that NO ONE revered for their accomplishments in some realm of human endeavor was perfect and unblemished, especially from the perspective of decades or centuries later.
