Why does one preclude the other? Are you under the impression that once you make friends in a Greek house, you are prohibited from making other friends through math class or the tennis team or the student newspaper? Of course you make those friendships too, as it suits you. Good grief, you can share dorm rooms and apartments with friends who aren’t in your house if that is what suits you. No one CARES. It’s a social club not a cult. I really think some of you have bizarre impressions of exclusivity.
It has nothing to do with one precluding the other. Nothing. I don’t even understand what you are saying. No one is claiming that joining a sorority means that you cannot socialize with anyone else. Where did that come from?
Here’s the point I keep trying to make and somehow isn’t getting through. ** You ** made a direct comparison between rush and friendships, claiming that this is the way life is. ** You ** claimed that choosing sorority sisters worked the same way as choosing friends, that it was the “same difference.” No. It does not. I’m not going to write it out again but feel free to read what I wrote above. (Twice.)
I think the point was that you do have to make friends with - or live with or be sisters with or whatever - with people you’ve only met for a brief time. And you have to decide “group of girls X” is the one you want to be with, not “group of girls y” or “group of girls z”, again based on brief interactions in a roughly a week’s time.
That kind of necessarily superficial choosing of groups of girls and the associated expense is fine for many, of course, more power to them.
Some folks have strong positive opinions about frats and sororities and that is fine. They have some value to society. But, I do not think it can be argues against that frats and sororities exclude some people based on looks or income levels or whatever. Let’s not be naive. My son joined a frat but it is an academic frat not a social one. Both my kids went to public schools even though the public schools have as many as half the people there on reduced lunches (or they do not eat at all). We (meaning my wife and I) didn’t want our kids to not associate with people in lower income levels. We are aren’t too good to associate with them. Had we done it another way, it would have been our loss.
^ I see a few stereotypes here. Kids who are Greek are not all wealthy. I have posted many times before that I was a middle class, community college transfer when I pledged. Some of my sorority sisters came from money, but they were not too good to associate with me. I know a number of people with similar backgrounds who are/ were in sororities. And although I now live in a very upper middle class area, the local public schools my kids attended had a fairly high percentage of kids who received free and reduced lunch.
The fact is that sadly there are always things kids can’t do because of money. Several of the teams at my local HS pretty much required participation in off season camps/ clinics, etc. there wer students who could not afford to do those things and they rarely made the team.
It may interest @NotVerySmart and others to learn that at Harvard and Yale – and I bet Columbia too – offer financial support to prospective members who can not readily afford the sorority’s dues. Some women pay nothing, others a greatly reduced amount and all groups over payment arrangements that permit women to pay in increments over the course of 6-9 months.
@higheredmom At some schools, that’s the case. Others don’t seem to place the same importance on equal access for all students. From the Columbia Spectator article I quoted some pages back:
"At some schools, that’s the case. Others don’t seem to place the same importance on equal access for all students. "
Yes. Costs are different at each school. Amount of scholarship/FA available is different at each school. Chapter ABC is different at each school. Greek life is different at each school.
Harvard’s sororities are unrecognized y the college so I wonder why they would support them with financial aid for dues, @higheredmom ?
I hesitate to tread into the territory of whether colleges should be funding sorority dues, but honestly I do not think they should. I think their financial aid should be applied toward tuition, books and other expenses that can be directly tied to education.
There are plenty of on campus employment opportunities to assist students with financing life style choices and entertainment expenses. My own D was struggling with making ends meet on the monthly allowance we provided. Some of it was due to sorority functions and the related expenses. We held firm and said look around for opportunities to make some additional income. She did and got a $15 an hour job for 8 to 10 hours a week at a lab on campus. The job also actually relates to her major so it also builds her resume. Best thing we could have done for her was refusing to just give her the funds when she wanted something that she could not afford. Now she knows she can find a way herself.
Not sure if all campuses are the same, but D said that anyone who wants an hourly job on campus can pretty easily find one.
How are the eating clubs at Princeton handled?
Princeton just recently began increasing FA for juniors and seniors to cover eating club dues. BUT students get the increased aid whether they join or not. @Pizzagirl
“Harvard’s sororities are unrecognized y the college so I wonder why they would support them with financial aid for dues, @higheredmom ?”
The financial aid is coming from the sorority chapter itself, not from the university. In other words, they raise the sticker price of dues so that the people who can afford them subsidize the people who cannot.
Financial aid is very ingrained in the culture at Harvard. Even people who can afford any price might not join if they felt it wasn’t economically accessible to their classmates.
Ah I see. That’s great.
Not the case at Columbia, I guess.
At Harvard the FAQs put out by the sororities warn students that there is almost no financial aid available to fund dues and suggest that girls who want to join find jobs or think carefully about the financial commitment before rushing.
At Dartmouth FA can be applied to fraternity costs, including rooming if you live there. All students on campus have to have meal plans, and the sororities/fraternities/co-ed/affinity houses do not have separate dining rooms. (In fact, I believe that FA can be applied to off-campus housing also.) Kids on full rides can be members.
@Hanna I can not speak directly to Harvard sorority practices, but at Yale, chapters do not raise sticker prices on full pay members. Sorority alumnae, parents and others able to support financial support for members unable to pay do so. There is no institutional support as you correctly note, and in the case of Yale, I can confirm that the sorority women are pushing for support from their national organizations.
Most of the philanthropic organizations of the national chapters are quite ‘feminist focused’, IMO, and continue on long after school days are done. Women’s heart health, women’s employment issues, Reading is Fundamental, St. Jude’s Hospital, cancer research, child care and child education issues. Some focus on helping young girls to make it to college with Race for Success and other programs.
Even back when I was in school, members of my house were working on political campaigns, working for newspapers, working in student government. One has won a Pulitzer prize, one is on the board of trustees at a university, several have held political office. I think of many of them as strong feminists. I really can’t think of one who ‘just got an M.R.S.’ Everyone has a career.
Sororities offer more than just tea and cake.
“At Harvard the FAQs put out by the sororities warn students that there is almost no financial aid available to fund dues”
Well, that sucks. At any rate, nothing comes from the school.
Sororities charge the same for all members. There may be some financial aid through either the national group or a local alum group, but it usually goes to current members, not those who wish to join. They also have academic and need scholarships available to undergrads and grad student ts, but as you can imagine, they are quite competitive.
I don’t see this as a lot different than many other social or sports organizations. If you want to play sports or join the hiking club, you pay a fee.