First of all, heartfelt thanks to all of you who have been so helpful and patient in answering all my questions. I have been following up on your many suggestions and it has been a useful tool for my D in developing her own criteria.
She confirmed she feels strongly about wanting intellectual stimulation but not stress and overload.
Should I, therefore, let it go and not encourage reach school applications if D feels strongly that rather be at the top of the pack and not the bottom or even the middle?
I will say, the reaches on the list are mostly true reaches, both in terms of admission and finances, after re-running some of the the NPCs. Two of them look reasonable in terms of finances but have other things that might not make them good fits.
Very selfishly, not applying to these would spare me having to do the CSS Profile.
Meanwhile, there is one remaining high match…that asks for the CSS profile. No other colleges on the list do. I have to figure out if that one would be worth encouraging an application in light of her feelings. She doesn’t care about the school either way. It just happens to be a good school, with her major, in reasonable drive.
And about her fear of being overloaded, I can attest to the fact that she does not function well at all when she’s under continual stress or loses sleep.
Honestly if she doesn’t want a reach school I think it is ok. My son didn’t want a reach school either. He chose a reach program. He is determined to be an equine vet and wanted to go to a school with a good animal science program, a vet school, lots of horses around, and OOS. He wants to do well undergrad without burning out because he knows he has vet school coming later. His reach was to get accepted into an early admission to vet school program where he is guaranteed admission if he keeps his GPA up. That was his focus. He did not want the east or west coast.
He was accepted in his reach program and is going to a medium sized State School and all of us are very content in his decision. It is ok to only apply to schools that you really want to go to, and can afford.
I wouldn’t push for the reaches, especially if they are financially not feasible as well. I understand the thinking that we want our kids to dream big and reach for the stars but everyone will do that in their own way. Your D sounds like she has a healthy attitude and will do well.
Stress and overload and reach for admission may go hand in hand and may not. In fact, the converse may be true. Take Harvard and Brown for example. Both are extreme longshots for anyone and everyone walks out Cum Laude or better. A state engineering school on the other hand that may be very easy to get into, but has very high attrition because they don’t have the resources or desire to help marginal students along, might be very stressful.
The difficulty of admission may also not correlate to the quality of the undergraduate education experience.
All that said, there’s no reason to apply to reaches, especially if they aren’t a financial fit, if a student doesn’t feel like they will not be good fits.
It would help if you posted the college list (both where definitely applying and which schools are on the bubble) and the major.
No, there is no reason you HAVE to reach. My kid’s college list is basically safeties and reaches, with no individual matches other than the honors programs at her safety schools, a much scarier composition.
Will she have at least 3 acceptances that are good fits for her and financially for you with the list you have? If so, you’re probably fine.
A good school with her major within a reasonable drive is nothing to sneeze at, but if she isn’t feeling the love after a visit or two, there’s no reason to push it if the rest of the list is good.
I’m a big believer that HOW you go to school not WHERE you go is most important. So I agree with the above advice.
Say a student applies ED to Chicago. It truly is a reach for them academically, but they manage to gain admittance with scores/grades in bottom 10% of admitted/enrolled students. They’ll probably do fine, and in some classes might very well be a stronger student than many of those whose application was stronger overall. But, in general, they will be in class with students who are incredibly bright relative to themselves. There are definite advantages to that–I feel like I learned more from friends than in the classroom in college–but also definite challenges. It might be more difficult to really excel in the classroom and more difficult to secure research and internship opportunities.
Now what if that student is an NC resident. Their stats put them right about in the middle of accepted/enrolled students at UNC-CH. They apply EA to Chapel Hill and are accepted and attend. Well, that’s an amazing place with amazing faculty, staff, and students, but perhaps not as academically/intellectually overwhelming for a student no wanting to go full blast intellectually 24/7. Some classes would be relatively challenging, others more manageable.
So no “right” answer but things to consider beyond the straight-up “prestige” of a school based on rankings and reputation.
One of my best friends did this, attended a guaranteed program at a state school, went to vet school at another state school, then parlayed an internship overseas into a PhD in animal science at a foreign university and now both teaches and runs a clinic in a foreign country with his foreign wife (who also holds a PhD).
As others are pointing out, the devil is in the details.
I completely understand the student who has strong credentials, but does not want the stress of the Ivies, MIT or Stanford. In general, if that student wanted to apply to Penn State, Purdue, or Michigan State, I would have no problem with that, especially if they had programs that fit him/her well. A top student can get an excellent education at these schools with generally lower stress level overall. If they decide they want to challenge themselves more at some point, these schools have the ability to provide those opportunities.I would question it if they wanted to go to South West Quinoa State, however.
Cautions:
Be sure that the schools you consider have the best accreditations.
Also be aware of the plan for her specific major. Does she plan to work after her bachelors or is she headed for grad school? Is placement success and salary ranges similar at these schools for her program? (Usually yes, but depends on major). Where do their students usually go to grad school? Is she happy with those options?
In general, like most things in life, the more that you have really thought through the plan up front, the fewer surprises you get later.
“She confirmed she feels strongly about wanting intellectual stimulation but not stress and overload.”
This sounds familiar. This also sounds sensible.
We stress our kids too much. There are a LOT of very good universities out there. For most students it is probably a very bad idea to go to the most stressful and most “prestigious” university that they can get into, but that is precisely where a lot of students seem to want to go.
“And about her fear of being overloaded, I can attest to the fact that she does not function well at all when she’s under continual stress or loses sleep.”
Your daughter sounds like she knows what she wants, and it is a very sensible thing to want. You must have done something right over the past 18 years!!
S opted out of applying to any reaches. He knew what he wanted. For him, not having debt at graduation was a huge driver, and he would not have received enough need-based aid at top schools to avoid having to take out at least some loans. He targeted schools where he could be in a meaningful Honors program and receive enough merit-based aid to not have to worry about debt. His first couple of rolling admission acceptances were to schools he really liked and offered enough merit that he didn’t even end up applying to any safety schools either.
She may be saying she doesn’t feel resilient enough to handle the rejections. She may be saying she doesn’t want to spend 4 years competing with the kind of kids who did everything and then some to get accepted to a reach school (even if she in their peer.). She will not be any less smart or accomplished or hard-working by virtue of the choice she does make. I would leave well enough alone and be happy that she seems to have identified schools where she has a good chance of being accepted and being able to afford tuition.
D2s first choice was her safety. We were the ones who asked her to apply to a few other schools, each matches. It made the college selection process very unstressfull. She had a great first year and is looking forward to going back. I can understand it if a student wants to apply to a school that would be a reach, however, I don’t see any reason a student would need to apply to a reach school.
My D1 took kind of the same path. She was not interested in any of the Ivies but she loves one very high reach after visiting there with her school orchestra in junior year. That was the only one top 10 (top few) schools she applied. At the end she was not accepted by it (not surprising at all even with near perfect stat) but a few schools within the top 20-30. Among the accepted schools, she did not pick the most prestigious one either but the instate flagship that offers better scholarship and lower out of pocket cost. She said she does not want to compete with all those top students in the next 4 years. The instate flagship is also within top 30 but obviously much less competitive. Because of that, she has been receiving additional scholarships every year. She is happy in school and we are happy to pay less, and she is going graduate next year debt free.
One of the most important things I learned about this process is to listen to your kid. If she has schools that she wants to attend, that she should get into, and that are affordable then go with it and don’t look back. But if she has a change of heart next year when it is actually time to apply, be open to changing direction.
Statistically speaking most of the schools that CC posters are interested in are attended by the top 5% of the population. There is a point of diminishing returns. Many other factors overshadow (e.g. drive, discipline, organization, social skills) far outweigh the minor differences in between students. Even schools like MSU are attended by kids mostly in the top 15%.
It seems to me that the ‘reach’ schools are mostly about good FA rather than any inherent superiority.
Considering ~3000 colleges in the country, the top 30 schools are the top 1%. Of course many of the top 5% students cannot afford the reach schools because of relatively high income and choose to receive merit scholarships in lower tier schools.
Thanks to everyone for responding. Your comments were very reassuring.
I might encourage her include a few financial reaches because there are some nice schools that meet all her other criteria but are slighly above our limit according to the NPCs. They might surprise us, or she might even get a little music scholarship to make it possible. I think that’s worth trying if everything else is right.
I look at it this way. As noted above, there are something like 3000 colleges/universities in the US. Now say there’s a large public high school with 3000 students. All 3000 students undergo impossibly extensive testing, surveys etc. to come up with a ranking from 1 to 3000 of these students in terms of athletic ability. This ranking is as accurate as is humanly possible. How much difference would there be between #47 and #67. #67 would probably be better at some things than #47. Maybe a little faster, maybe able to throw a little better. But probably there would be no area where #47 was vastly superior. The same could be said for #97 and #127. Now #7 would probably be a much stronger athlete than #2777. Now put it in collegiate terms. A student might be choosing between #47 and #67 or #97 and #127. They are probably not choosing between #7 and #2777. So there really is little difference between schools that a student might be considering, as there is probably little difference between these athletes. And if athlete #67 works harder than #47, they will probably have more success.
