<p>“I’ve developed 100 zingers I could now use on those 13-year-olds who made my life a living hell.” </p>
<p>Can you share some of them? (As a parent, there were a few simple phrases from “Love and Logic” author that helped me. The best was “probably so”, to avoid a pointless argument. This situation is different. But it reminded me of the power of the right phrase".)</p>
<p>As I have mentioned, I was horribly bullied. I think the knowledge and memory of being chased out of school and away from my friends by one mean girl without trying any other strategies to stop the mean girl first would be more upsetting and traumatic than trying to fix the problem before changing schools. But, that’s just me. If you want to twist that into me saying bullying makes kids tougher you might as well be talking to yourself because we are certainly not communicating.</p>
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<p>This makes sense to me.</p>
<p>But how do you fix the problem?</p>
<p>I’m asking this question seriously. I’m 58 years old. I was bullied in middle school. I didn’t know any good ways to deal with it then, and I still don’t. It’s fortunate that neither of my kids was bullied because I would have been unable to advise them on how to stop it from happening.</p>
<p>There’s a lot of information out there about how to modify the culture of a school so that bullying becomes socially unacceptable. That’s good. But it doesn’t help the individual kid who is being harassed by another individual kid right now. </p>
<p>Most of the people who say that the OP’s daughter will learn valuable skills from this unfortunate situation seem to be focusing on the idea that she will learn how to ignore the taunts of the mean girl and enjoy her life despite this continuing undesirable situation. </p>
<p>Is this really the only choice? Is there no way to stop the situation (other than the one the OP’s daughter wants, which is to leave the school)?</p>
<p>A colleague of mine changed her daughter’s home address (to her ex-husband’s (friendly ex)) to opt her into a different, smaller school district. Her daughter did much better afterwards because the kids in her original school were really a bunch of hoodlums.</p>
<p>So, it’s a little more complicated than ignore it and enjoy your life but simply put kids don’t usually pick on kids who aren’t much bothered by it. They are looking for a reaction. Since the OP says her daughter is over-sensitive and the mere mention of dropping out of school sounds quite drastic to me it is possible that’s what’s happening here.</p>
<p>I am not sure what the solution is either, as my parents were completely oblivious and didn’t try to help me, but I think there can be positive outcomes-- look at Limewine’s story above.</p>
<p>I do feel obliged to mention that my bullies, many of whom bullied me straight from kindergarten to high school, didn’t care whether I reacted or not. I got all the conventional advice about turning the other cheek and I heard all about how they would lose interest but they never did after years and years, that advice turned out to be the biggest pile of BS in my life. Even if they eventually outgrew direct taunting and insults, it was still fun and minimal effort to exclude me or convince other kids not to talk to me. I would make friends with kids in the neighborhood and when the school kids found out we were friends outside of school they would ostracize that kid until they stopped being my friend inside or outside of school. A non-reaction was a reaction itself-- how far could they push me and still not get a reaction? They never tired of trying to find out. Learning how not to react just taught me to withdraw and then I ended up missing out on friendships in high school because I was so withdrawn nice kids assumed I didn’t want them to talk to me, either, so they didn’t.</p>
<p>That is why I do support leaving the school if nothing else works out, there is nothing to gain from staying in a hopeless situation. But I think OP needs to talk to the school first and see if this girl can be stopped. Especially since OP says the mean girl considers OP’s D to be a friend (some friend!), maybe OP can even talk to her parents and work it out. I don’t think that these things aren’t worth trying, especially since she is doing well academically and has good friends. That is something that is worth at least trying to fight for. The one bully that ever physically attacked me was stopped and he never bothered me again, and there were no repercussions to me for letting my parents go after him. It can be done. Ducking out of school as a first reaction to one bully is insane, there is not a school in the country that doesn’t have a single mean kid.</p>
<p>“Ignoring” is not a good enough strategy, as Ema’s experience suggests. So interesting that when Ema’s parents did recognize (because it was physical), their intervention stopped it. So sad that they didn’t catalogue verbal attacks as equally serious for their D.</p>
<p>Bullying basics: the oppressor (just need a new word because ‘bully’ is tiresome) looks for someone of lesser social power to target. To figure this out, the oppressor uses a power-and-fear-based hierarchy. And that hierarchy is same way to halt the oppression.</p>
<p>The parent can find somoene whom the oppressor fears and has more power (her parent, the school administrator…). That person whom the oppresor fears must explicitly tell the oppressor to desist, threaten a consequence if it continues, check in with the oppressed one to see if it has stopped. </p>
<p>Nothing less works. “Ignoring” is of no interest to the oppressor and takes all the emotional energy of the oppressed one. Ignoring might work around Kindergarten, but these kids are MS and have stamina!</p>
<p>This is all known within schools, and is how trained Vice Principals etc handle bullying complaints. Why don’t parents also know this? It all works based on power and fear. That’s how it starts, and that’s how to stop it – with adult intervention crucial to make change happen.</p>
<p>There are also strategies to teach children so they are not the likely targets. These include more self-confidence (activities), zippy replies, surrounding themselves with friends (which OP’s D already has).</p>
<p>The most effective strategy I’ve found for people who make remarks that are nasty (and, surprisingly, I have encountered them as an adult) is to say “I’m sorry, I didn’t hear you, could you please repeat that?” The person will actually repeat it louder, most of the time. And then I say “what? please repeat that” again. At some point, everyone nearby has turned around and is staring at the person–which is when you walk away.</p>
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<p>I’m just going to chime in to agree with the others who say this is crap, and indicates that whoever says it wasn’t the target of bullying. It’s interesting that people who weren’t the target of bullying think it’s not that bad, but people who were the target of bullying say, yes, it is that bad.</p>
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<p>Y’know, this doesn’t actually work with kids. The bully is happy to repeat the statement over and over again, laughing harder each time, and the bully’s toadies laugh harder too. Shaming only works when there are people around with higher social status than the bully around, and school bullies are usually smart enough not to bully then.</p>
<p>First of all I’m sorry to all of you who suffered no matter how long ago.</p>
<p>I guess the question is, what is the worst that can happen if she gets to stay home the second half of the year and be homeschooled or do online classes? What’s the worse case if she stays? That to me feels like a no brainer. Let her come home, build up some maturity and confidence, ease up on the social stuff for some time. Even if the bullying is no big deal I don’t see the harm in stepping away from an environment that may be causing her stress. </p>
<p>I wasn’t bullied, I was by all accounts just a middle of the road, happy kid. But I was uncomfortable with a bunch of classmates who intimidated me and I just wanted to make sure I stayed invisible. I learned nothing from that, it just took me years to be comfortable in my own skin. </p>
<p>If she’s so willing to say goodbye, this girl wants out. She’s not comfortable. Institutionalized learning isn’t the be all end all.</p>
<p>CF: I’ve seen my method work with middle school students. (I used to teach in a 6-12 school) because students actually forget there are adults in the room.</p>
<p>My lessons learned:
Mean girls (and guys) stay mean. More girls than guys. Guess it’s their DNA. You’ll meet them at work as an adult if you are unfortunate. If you do, CC will tell you to find a new job. Life is too short to put up with them. The stress isn’t worth it. The only benefit of having been bullied is that you learn to recognize them.</p>
<p>There is no easy answer on how to handle them since while you can act like you don’t care–they don’t care how you act.</p>
<p>It lives with you for a long time.</p>
<p>I (like Marian) look back as an adult and STILL wonder how I could have combated the bully who targeted me. I tried to stand up to her but didn’t do a great job and I had support from some good friends too at the time. All my teaching was “turn the other cheek”, “ignore them”, “you’re better than them”. Sometimes I think a good fist fight would have been better but I’d have been killed by “monstro”.</p>
<p>Yes, I lived through it–didn’t change schools or do anything drastic. I was very top of my class and had a lot of support from a small group of friends and admin. Self esteem wasn’t an issue. BUT, I remember it 40 years later. And that’s just plain sad. It made me shyer and more afraid of enlarging my group of potential friends. Very sad. I spent WAY to much emotional energy at a young age on a situation I didn’t know how to handle.</p>
<p>Gouf, I made some attempt to answer the “what’s the worst that can happen?” question in post 120, but to briefly recap, she might feel very lonely, damage her relationships with her good friends, receive a poorer academic experience, and find it difficult to reintegrate whenever she does return to a more conventional educational setting.</p>
<p>The other alternative is not doing nothing. It is taking reasonable measures that might actually work to solve the problem without taking such a drastic step - like, changing the daughter’s schedule to avoid the mean girl and trying to rally other members of the supposed “nice” group of friends in her support.</p>
<p>I haven’t read this whole thread but I just wanted to chime in with my story. I was bullied in middle school. Nothing physical, just emotional from both the teachers and students. I was not open with my parents because I was <em>just</em> before bullying became a big thing and I had no idea I was being bullied.</p>
<p>I ended up missing an entire semester in either 7th or 8th grade. Can’t remember which. I was legitimately sick for half of the time (I had double pneumonia) and then the other half it was all in my head. I was so nervous about going back to school that I made myself physically sick. The school threatened to send truancy officers to my house even though all my absences were excused. I ended up transferring to a public school (and we moved) and I never had another issue. My high school experience was incredible. </p>
<p>IMO, if there is an alternative, there is NO reason to continue to subject the OP’s D to bullying. It doesn’t make you stronger, it just leaves scars. I have no problem sticking up for myself and others now, but when you’re that age and even the adults in the school are against you, you think you’re the problem and that you shouldn’t (or can’t) stick up for yourself.
Comparing her situation to a work situation or something else that happens to ADULTS is just ridiculous. A child is not an adult.</p>
<p>“even the adults in the school are against you,” - That part is very sad. Hopefully it does not happen today. </p>
<p>Our pastor’s sermon on Christmas Eve happened to discuss an unfortunate situation in 3rd grade (around 1970) where even the teacher rebuked a kids in front of the class, “no wonder everybody teases - you deserve it”. The kid never returned to school.</p>
<p>Colorado, I am only 22. My experience is not that long ago (I graduated from middle school in 2005). It certainly still happens. The teachers, principal, and religious folk (Priest, nuns, etc) that were there when I was are still there and I highly doubt anything has changed.</p>
<p>My one experience with physical bullying, which would have been in 2001 or 2002 I guess, the assistant principal was certainly against me. A boy, who was supposed to be in my friend group, was terrorizing me by throwing an open and full water bottle into the air over and over again to watch me scramble to avoid getting wet. After he did this a dozen or so times I managed to get the bottle away from him and I threw it over a fence so that he would not be able to keep doing it. He got mad and beat me with a 2x4. I went into the office after recess and they gave me an ice pack and sent me back to class, they weren’t even interested in hearing who did it. My mom was horrified when I got home and called the school, and insisted something be done. I don’t know what was said but the response prompted my mom to be present when I was interviewed by the assistant principal, who bullied me and said I did something terrible by throwing away the bottle and made me cry, and in the end I was punished and not allowed “within 10 feet” of the boy who attacked me, which meant I was separated from ALL of my friends since we were in the same group while he got to keep them, and I was given a referral for littering, and the boy was not punished AT ALL. It took a police report and the family attorney getting involved and that assistant principal “retiring” and getting a job at another school for the situation to get sorted out properly. But it did, within a matter of days. The actual principal was a sweet woman who was sympathetic to me, and I think her influence and the fact that the police went and spoke to the boys parents made a big difference. Within a week of this happening it was like it never happened at all and this boy was a lot nicer to me. We were actual friends for a while.</p>
<p>But, I guess this was ten years ago now. I hope things have changed. I am eagerly awaiting seeing what is different and what is the same when we have kids in the near future. I made sure to pick a good district with school of choice options and I will home school if it turns out that their public school options aren’t appropriate for them. I am open to whatever it takes and was determined to have options when we decided where to live. OP’s D’s situation doesn’t really sound anything like mine and for the sake of her existing friendships and her academic success I would want to try and resolve the situation first if at all possible, but if not possible I would support pulling her out.</p>
<p>The big thing for me, I think, was the pervasiveness of the bullying. Nearly everyone in the class was doing it, the few that weren’t were too afraid to socialize with me, and even though there was nothing wrong with me it became a learned behavior that I was garbage and not worth being nice to. There was no fixing that after it went on seven years, there was no unteaching those kids that I was beneath them. One mean girl is a lot more easily dealt with, especially if the school is supportive.</p>
<p>Can you update? Did your daughter go back to school?</p>