When does it end?

Parent Cafe
21

<p>^It is my understanding that it is much more difficult to get accomodations if the student did not have accomodations in high school for this very reason. I also heard that it is difficult to “suddenly” require accomodations in tenth or eleventh grade, and that prior to approval they would like to see a history of an identified disability (ie: prior to 8th grade). It is obviously not always possible, because a student could suddenly develop a disability or be identified with one in later years. It does seem to me, however, like an imperfect system. I wonder how difficult it is to receive accomodations if homeschooled.</p>

<p>It is also for the reasons that you mention that I do not like essays as part of the college application, and it is why I do find the essay part of the writing section to be worthwhile, if admissions would read and consider those essays.</p>

22

<p>It is, from what I have heard, more difficult in the 10th or 11th grade, but it is done, all the time. (sudden sports injury in hand–need computer because child can’ hold pencil!)</p>

<p>Please Note: I know that many, if not most, college counselors are honest and won’t do the work be they public or private. I know that their jobs are never easy and that it takes just a (very?) few to make this system not work. I acknowledge that all of us want what is best for our kids. But, in this case (getting this off my chest) I have watched the manipulation for years with smug self-justification.</p>

23

<p>I can’t answer your original question, but given the outrageous behavior, I’m sure you know that at some point it will end. It will come back to harm them and their poor daughter.</p>

24

<p>I have no words (well, actually, I do but I’m not permitted to use them here!!)</p>

<p>But one thing I had to laugh at . . . they criticize her for being too short? That’s their fault, not hers! It’s their genes that created her. If I knew these people, I would gleefully point that out!!</p>

25

<p>My immediate thought was, that if it were me, I would turn these people in to every source possible (up to and including the IRS), for every version of fraud. If I knew of all these people were doing, and did nothing more than stew and fume, then forever I would have to live with that. (and to set this statement straight, I did turn someone in years ago for forgery and fraud)</p>

<p>Blow the whistle.</p>

<p>Send anonymous letters (send them to someone outside your area/state) and have them mail them. </p>

<p>But please, if what you’ve written is even partially true, they need to be stopped.</p>

<p>Can you all imagine what other types of fraud these folks are committing? No chance on the planet that their “real” income tax returns are true and accurate, that their business records (I assume they have a business) are true and accurate. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t be able to associate with people like this, because I would assume that every single thing out of their mouths was BS.</p>

26

<p>I have friends who have dallied or are involved in things that are not legal, moral, etc. They are friends for many reasons. But I do not sanction or assist them in what they do that I don’t like. We stay away from those areas. If it ever came down to a provable crime, I would have to report them. But hints and innuendos are not enough to blow the whistle. It’s not my business what they do in terms of unprovable crimes. But I do severely limit my time and dealings with such people.</p>

<p>There is a lot of cheating, lying, stealing going on out there, and if it crosses a certain provable line, blowing the whistle is the thing to do. But you have to decide where the line is. As to what they are doing with their child; well, maybe it will work for her/them, maybe not. They are taking risks that I would not take and perhaps setting their child up for a situation that is too much for her. I don’t have any envy for them at all. Sometimes you let things like that go.</p>

<p>As an aside, I am hearing so much about parents getting adderall for SATs and other academic performance. Not a good idea. The drug is dangerous for many. It does not yet have a long term track record, and some of the side effects are rally detrimental, especially for young people who are going to be prone to some mood disorders at this time of their lives. I am writing this as someone who has legitimately been on the med, and had some life threatening side effects. Because I was under scrutinizing medical observation while on the drug, it was caught, but I am concerned with the way this drug is being used as though it is harmless. It is not.</p>

27

<p>Don’t think that this is so unique (unfortunately). When I first heard of the application “coaches” I was shocked. The worst I have heard of was special accomodations for an “ADD” student for the MCATS. My H said “What will be next? Will the patient have to be under the gas twice as long because the surgeon has an accomodation?” Did he really have a learning difference? Who knows. Rejected at all US med schools anyway.</p>

28

<p>My current high schooler is a good student who does poorly on standardized tests. He is slow, meticulous and dependable. The type of kid everyone wants on his team because he is reliable and thorough. One of the most mature kids his age I have ever met. Organized, quiet leader, great kid. But he does not have the speed to complete difficult standardized tests and “curveballs” really get to him. If he has been taught something, he is golden and accurate in completing it, but unlike his brothers, does not do well in coming up with a way to handle a new problem on tests. Some friends of mine, including doctors and educators have suggested getting accommodations for him on tests or meds to get him moving faster since “it is such a shame that he is going to be penalized” for his style of test taking. That is the way things have gone, I guess. We just aren’t going to do it unless there are definite signs of a true malady which I doubt seriously will arise. He has his style of learning and testing, and there are plenty of schools out there who will recognize it and take him on his attributes. He will probably be much better off in such places anyways. To go to a tough, high pressure school filled with sharp, quick, motivated kids is putting a more laid back, slower student through a painful, cruel gauntlet, in my opinion.</p>

29

<p>The “height” problem was caused by a great grandmother. I know this…and I am sad. I cannot turn anyone into the IRS without concrete proof that they will, in fact, do this. HOWEVER, I was talking with a friend yesterday and mentioned my issue (?). Was I being too judgemental? No. Would I be penalizing the child for the neuroses and graspings of the parents if I refused to write a rec? (yes). I mentioned, in passing, one of the schools the child is applying to…bear in mind that my friend and I have discussed this woman before on other issues…and my friend said, “She won’t be going to ______________” My neighbor is an admissions counselor. I’m passing her name along.</p>

<p>You’ve heard of six degrees of separation? We are across the country from my friend. Sometimes the stars align. I am sure that the kid will get in somewhere extraordinary. But not at “our” school, and not at my friend’s alma mater. And yes, this is true. And I more than suspect that this is in no way a unique situation. Didn’t I read here that kids are coming up with non-white relatives to make them a urm?</p>

30

<p>I think you should mind your own business about this, and if this person is causing you so much grief by talking about doing these things, find other things to do, because this is really not healthy for you. Yes, there are many people out there doing illegal things, and there is a point when it becomes important to report them, but too often you do not have sufficient proof to do so. Some people talk out loud about these things without doing them too, you know. As my H’s old uncle said at a family union when I was being bitten by mosquitos, “Pay them no mind”. I went inside rather than getting eaten alive.</p>

31

<p>anothermom- interesting that some one could get accommodations for the MCAT for ADD. My DD has an actual learning disability, it was Dx in elementary school, it was difficult to diagnose as it was difficult to get any one to pay attention because she is very bright and compensated well, but she felt stupid.</p>

<p>In a nutshell, she processes 30 points lower on the scale than her IQ, so when she reads anything longer than a short paragraph, she looses track and must reread numerous times. She is a very slow reader and timed tests are tough.</p>

<p>She got 1.5 time on things like the SAT, etc. Her scores (and she did not finish even with extra time) were statistically the same as her sisters who had no extra time and finished early. I did not see the extra time as anything other than allowing her to show her true understanding. She spent all of HS studying longer than her friends.</p>

<p>In university she does not meet the requirements which would have her performing below average, so if 100 is average and her IQ was 150 and her LD makes processing 120, then she would need to perform below 80 to merit extra time.</p>

<p>This is the same for her flagship public and for the MCAT, so those people who gamed the system for ADD post HS are either really bad off or really sneaky. I have talked to her original diagnostician who is now a county special ed director and their department agreed there is no way she could meet the standards for extra time, as it is as compared to all average people, not compared to all university students or all MCAT takers. They also felt she ought to have extra time, but that is just life. In reality, she has some B+s when she was knowledgeable, but too slow, for As. In reality, if she goes through med school, the reading will be tough, but it has always been tough, when bright classmates suffered in AP classed, having to work for the first time ever, DD was used to it, so she will adapt fine in med school if she can get in.</p>

<p>Just interjecting this because I do not understand how an ADD student could possibly qualify for accommodations, which makes me wonder about the veracity of what they say…making me wonder about the OPs “friends” Are the really cheating this much or are they big (stupid) talkers trying to impress people with how they can game the system?</p>

<p>Thinking of people in SoCal who bragged about pushing the limit on tax returns, yet knowing their accountants and knowing they would not allow cheating, I always wondered if those braggarts were just showing off and not really cheating, merely exxagerating for effect in their “playground” stories???</p>

32

<p>Somemom, you bring up interesting points. I actually knew the student and parents I wrote about, but I am not attuned to the particulars that you mention with respect to learning differences. In fact it was the first time I had ever heard that anyone got more time for any standardized test, so I did not ask specific questions. This was probably 2 or three years ago. Maybe they did lie about accomodations. Along this same mode before this child attended undergrad, the parents told me that they were getting special letters from x (not important who) so that he would get a single dorm room. I was told that this worked. Again, who knows. Maybe more proof of your theory.</p>

<p>I guess it is important to wonder if these stories are made up by the storytellers. I certainly wouldn’t go around making up stories, but I guess some people do like to do so. So the OP might consider the stories as potential fiction as well.</p>

33

<p>Well…as the OP I can tell you that I am not a fiction writer. In fact I was so dismayed by the situation I felt compelled to write. Sorry to inflate you bubble. I also know a person who received extra time for their MCAT…and the person has finished their second year of med school. I suspect that at some point you will understand that this sort of thing happens, with different permutations, fairly often. Welcome to the world.</p>

<p>And now I think that we should let this topic go to the netherlands because while I won’t insult you and the “points” you make I’d appreciate the same courtesy.</p>

34

<p>elle - I think she was saying that your friend may telling you stories or embellishing - not that you are.</p>

35

<p>(since we have known this family for over 15 years and watched them in action this behavior wasn’t offbase behavior for them)</p>

36

<p>Ellebud, I did not mean that you were the story teller, but that perhaps the friends could be telling you made up stories. No offense directed at you, and no insult meant. You know your source. I now think the people we know could have been embellishing, or, maybe not. Now I will be more attuned to the details when I hear such things personally myself.</p>

37

<p>ellebud- no offense intended, my comment was more general, not just your situation. Just wondering if it is like the full ride scholarship on merit/athletics to Harvard- we all know that is not correct but people are some how fudging.</p>

<p>I have no idea why some one would brag about cheating, but why would some one come on a message board and make up a false profile (thinking of kids with inflated SAT/MCAT/GPA scores who are sometimes outed Why would any one brag about cheating? Wouldn’t you think you might be turned in?</p>

<p>I do believe some people will go to dramatic lengths to lie and cheat, I had just wanted to share that I have a kid who does need extra time and we checked it at Berkeley and for MCAT and checked it with her diagnostician who is no longer a little elementary school psych, but had moved up to be the county SE coordinator, so she had known my D for over 10 years and is in a position to see what is happening across the county. She says DD should have extra time, she says there is no way to merit under the stated rule. And, no, she did not finish the MCAt verbal, just as she has some B+s, she will simply have to overcome that problem. Makes me crazy to think of some one cheating and getting extra time when she actually needs it and cannot have it. I choose to believe it will all work out well in the long term, though check back with me in 2 years to see if she got in anywhere :D</p>

<p>So, either the person has a serious disability (I always saw it as maybe applying only to some one who is physically disabled and cannot physically answer the test questions without accommodations, as anyone who is not already innately bright is likely not applying to med school, if you are performing so far below average, it must be physical) or they are an accomplished cheat to show on a 304 hour battery of tests that your potential is high and achievement low. They would have to know how to lie on the test, or the psychologist would have to be a liar, or maybe they have something really wrong??</p>

<p>I will freely admit I am a bit naive at times and take people at face value. I have had employees lie to my face with complete sincerity, I would never have doubted them had there not been proof that they were lying, so I know some people have no conscience! I have seen and been disgusted by people seeming to take advantage of situtations and been frustrated, too. I would love to see these people turned in to the finaid dept and the admissions dept. Fin aid can ask for bank stmts!</p>

38

<p>ellebud I don’t understand the point of this thread. Are you upset that people with disabilities are allowed accomodations? Do you think that they are all just gaming the system?</p>

39

<p>I believe my first post explains my point very well. Nowhere do I state that disabilities, legitimate, should not be accommodated. And now…I am done.</p>

40

<p>I think Elle has a valid point that there are some people who will resort to anything in their desperation and they will lie and cheat and behave very unethically. It amazes me not that they do it as much as that they brag about it :eek:</p>