Not to derail. but “just” is a dismissive word. Look, it’s fine if that’s not what you meant.
That was Sigmund Freud’s expression not mine.
How did you intend for this to be taken?
So nobody knows what he said? Intent matters. A history of actions matter. Does he have a history of racist behavior? Has he made racist comments? Labeling someone a racist is serious, and it requires more than an assumption of intent.
In my opinion, there’s far too much of a guilty until proven innocent mindset in our communities. People shouldn’t be able to toss serious, reputation destroying labels like this around without tangible proof and some sort of consequence if they’re mistaken. I’m willing to believe it’s more than a cigar, but not without proof.
There could be no non malicious reason for an actual noose around bananas to have been hung somewhere. Had whole bananas been placed in a tree I would lean toward malice, but since the banana was actually eaten, I’m going to come down on the side of piggishness. I think this act was just too subtle to have been a hostile act - those only serve the purpose if they are so clear that the act doesn’t use up its 15 minutes of fame on the argument of whether it actually was a hostile act. Eating a banana and littering the peel puts the micro in microaggression and the reaction thereto distracts from disturbing acts of racism like the trooper talking about killing black people. Like consolation, I don’t think of black people when I see a banana.
A couple of years ago the university of Delaware had a kerfkuffke in which they put their crisis management team into action, created programs, had ugly protests because there had been nooses in the trees. Oh wait. They were the cords for hanging lanterns put in the trees for an official event by the official facilities professionals.
I think in the case of Ole Miss, there is probably enough bad history to cause this level of anxiety, but I also think activism envy really happens.
Comments are just that- to explore all sides of a topic and make a discussion interesting. Doesn’t matter what I may think, one sided pile-on threads leave little to explore or discuss.
From the article in the OP.
I see the same quote in the Washington Times, but nothing else from him. What I do see is a dozen of so headlines making fun of those at the retreat finding this incident disturbing or frightening.
I linked to this letter this morning:
http://thedmonline.com/letter-editor-makala-mcneil
I found it worth reading. She correctly predicts the reaction to events.
This letter says it was a banana. Was it a banana or a banana peel?
The photo shows a banana peel. If that is an actual photo of the actual peel.
“On the other hand, if the conversation had turned into a lot of yelling and accusations of racism, I’m not sure I would have hung around long enough to do any learning.”
I think this observation by @Sue22 is spot on. Nothing productive happens when one side is not open to learning about a context that could cause someone else to be offended by an action that wasn’t intended to be offensive and if the other side is not open to the possibility that the action was in fact done without malevolence. But if each side can understand the others point of view, one side may be more circumspect when deciding where to discard his banana peel in the future and the other side might not jump to conclusions the next time it sees a banana peel lying around. And then you have progress.
It’s not fair to always assume everyone knows about a context that makes an act offensive, or has that context in mind when they take some action. Likewise, it’s not fair to automatically dismiss someone’s feeling that an action is offensive. We need to listen to each other, and everyone needs to be willing to reconsider their conduct and their assumptions. We all have a vested interest in that.
So, you say things you don’t mean, though other posters can’t know you don’t mean them, in order to “make a discussion” more interesting. There’s a word for that, but honestly, I am surprised by this. It’s frankly tough to have an honest conversation when one person is throwing out quotes but not standing behind what they say. If you don’t mean it, why quote Freud and act like you do? It doesn’t seem like the spirit of the site.
Oh come on. People engage in discussions and conversations all the time that engenders an interesting exploration of thoughts on the topic . People use humor, sarcasm, as well as discussions that utilize critical thinking all the time. You are reading so much more into a simple comment and trying to make it so much more than it is that its not worth discussing. And THAT, I mean. Enough. No more hyperbole or straw man arguments. Time to move on before this becomes a non-allowed debate.
@gclsports -Post #49 is spot on. There are so many that seem so quick to take offense, that there is little time for a reasonable discussion, both in the incident itself as well as discussions about it.
Unless there is some evidence that the banana peel was placed intentionally, the whole thing should have been dropped. The guy said he was littering. No one contradicted him. This whole kerfuffle is nonsense.
As a follow up, I mentioned the 22 pillows thread to DH and also the lively discussion about the many meanings of pineapples and what they symbolize (I had no clue about any of them). He said that he was told (and I am paraphrasing because he doesn’t recall exactly) that if someone had a pineapple statue thing on their front porch, it meant they were swingers open to spouse swapping! Wow! Who knew? News to us. Had no idea that this was some sort of “code”.
Oh, and as an aside, the person who said this in some conversation (not sure how many were participating in the conversation where this happened to come up) happened to be a female and in a high position in his company. And shock!! No one got their panties in a wad and went running to HR claiming sexual harassment. Sometimes its helpful to learn alternative meanings of things (I am sure glad I didn’t unknowingly decide to have some pineapple on my front stoop) and sometimes its ok to have a conversation without someone overreacting or taking offense.
As I understand from the very limited information I can find: They were on a retreat for Greek leadership. There was a workshop of some kind that dealt with race. Afterwards they saw the banana peel in a tree. It frightened them. I take them at their word here. They asked the white students to consider the symbolism. There was a discussion about racism on campus. The discussion did not go well.
Although the banana is the focus of news articles, a whole lot is going on besides that banana, including a series of fairly recent, racist events at Ole Miss. One was serious enough to be investigated by the FBI and someone charged with a civil rights crime. A member of this sorority had been targeted by racists at American University, and messages had been written on lynched bananas.
Pineapples are symbols of hospitality ( since colonial times). They were an expensive exotic item so symbolized a good host.
Well apparently in some circle they symbolize a “very good” host !! @-)
Yes, it is rather likely that the context of other racial baggage around the University of Mississippi* and its (highly racially segregated) fraternities and sororities, as well as events elsewhere, puts many on a hair trigger. Sort of like having a gasoline spill with the gasoline evaporating into flammable fumes when someone walks by and throws (whether carelessly or intentionally) a lit cigarette butt into the fumes.
*The school’s nickname, and the state flag, could very well be part of that racial baggage, in addition to various incidents and the racial segregation of the fraternities and sororities.
In fact Ms McNeil says
She refers to the offending object four times as a “banana”, not a “banana peel”, never says the word ‘peel’ and glides into a general discussion of banana symbolism.
She also says:
The pitfall in her writing the story is that the account is false in a significant way, to make the incident seem much more clear cut.
A banana on a tree, in that context - almost certainly malicious. A banana peel - very likely not malicious.
People can decide for themselves what they find offensive, but others are not obliged to agree that the offense justifies societal action, or to change their eating or littering habits.
Maybe the banana peel will become a new source of hostile workplace complaints. I should complain if people eat an orange, especially on St Patrick’s day.