Who knew about pineapples and Bananas. There’s rainbow, too.
Context is important. History is important. The history of those involved is important. Making fun of people for taking offense to something is a form of abuse in itself and serves to perpetuate the abuse.
Ole Miss has a fraternity that I hope has discontinued the tradition of having an annual ball in antebellum costumes.
From the school newspaper in 2014:
http://thedmonline.com/kappa-alpha-order-and-the-old-south/
"…One of Kappa Alpha’s members, Joel Buck (Epsilon Nu – Georgia College ’08), wrote a short essay on the Kappa Alpha Order website titled “Party like it’s 1865.” (I wonder how a party for someone like me would go in 1865, but that is neither here nor there.) He asks the following question to his fellow fraternity brothers, “If non-members see a large group of young men (and women) walking the streets in 1860s period costumes with alcoholic beverages in hand, what kind of message does that send?” …
edited to add: it seems in 2016 the national Kappa Alpha banned this type of event.
I am still trying to find confirmation that this group used to ride horses to the Confederate memorial and read the articles of succession. Anyone know if that is true?
Unfortunately this type of event was on several campuses. The students at Alabama even paraded past a black sorority in 2009. Additional campus the men would wear Confederate uniforms.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-us-old-south-fraternity-051309-2009may13-story.html
Bingo. What we have today is an updated version of a witch hunt.
His comments don’t sound malicious to me. I haven’t seen a history of comments or actions that would lead me to believe he’s racist either. He does appear to be a litterbug, though. I hope somebody fines him and makes him spend some time him picking up garbage so he cuts that out.
I wouldn’t use the term witch hunt. To me that term carries a connotation of persecution over an trivial event. Could you give me how you see the term so that I could understand better?
I don’t think trying to root out racist behavior, even unintentional racist behavior, is trivial.
It is up to us to do better every day- make people welcome, respect and opportunities for all, improve society so that it reflects our national ideals. The AA students at Ole Miss are telling us that there is still work to be done there.
The minority students at Ole Miss probably just want to do their school work and internships. They should not have to have the additional responsibility of educating the white students as to what is harmful and loaded.
The white community and white parents must participate in this. The national organization of the fraternity named above did this by saying no more antebellum themed parties.
The student who put the banana up is in the leadership of a very white fraternity. The fraternity community is surely aware of the tensions on campus regarding Greek life. This was a failure of their system of teaching the brothers to be respectful of all. A banana in a tree is not a banana thrown into the bushes for composting. Him saying that it is to me is an Eddie Haskell move. My hope is that the fraternity runs some ongoing training for students.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWA_zGZTqaQ
Snowball: Those KA Old South Balls were at all the southern universities, maybe nationwide. When I was at a southern flagship in the 70s, a different white fraternity had a Jungle Party, with members in blackface, and so-called jungle costumes, including bananas. I have a sense the Jungle Party evolved over time to be not quite so racist and offensive.
We had a thread about this incident a while back:
I am willing to believe Swanson just threw his peel in a tree, even though it is outside my life experience of 61 years that someone would do this, and even though I’ve spent a lot of time in the outdoors with picnics that included bananas. I am choosing to believe no malicious motive and hope I’m not proven wrong. I feel bad he ended up with his name in the news. That doesn’t mean I can’t support the concerns of those who have to worry about what banana peels in trees might mean, because their sorority sisters at a different university received threats written on bananas. If they were my daughters, I would have wanted them out of there when they were still uncomfortable following the meetings about the incident. I would have been worried about safety.
fwiw: my brothers, father, grandfathers, etc. – all in these white southern fraternities. I am sure no one meant to be racist and offensive. But they were. I would never presume to tell those young women they over-reacted.
Best case scenario to me is reaching a point where they aren’t triggered by a banana peel. And that means changing campus culture so far as I can tell.
Who is “they” in the “they are triggered”?
The rest of these AA students’ lives, bananas in trees are going to be an issue.
The point I want to make and I don’t really know how to word it.Yes, campus culture must change. However I still feel that in your sentence order there is a sense that the AA students have to change in order to not be “triggered”.
Triggered as a word has been mocked and trivialized and I don’t know you well enough to know if you are mocking it or respecting the fact that seeing a racist symbol is upsetting. And perhaps something legitimate to be upset about because of the areas history of violence to AA.
@“Snowball City” Yes, a witch hunt is persecution over an event - trivial to some, non trivial to others. Did the banana peel thrower have evil intent? Did they simply litter? We don’t know. But it doesn’t matter that we don’t know.
The witch hunters have determined it to be an event where punishment must be administered. And, our human pack mentality leads to fellow witch hunters, happily virtue signaling by their agreement, to ferret out and punish SOMEONE - some group.
And the identified perpetrator can not win. Just like in the witch hunt (if she floats she’s a witch and we drown her, if she sinks she’s not a witch, but she’s still dead). If the identified perpetrator(s) didn’t do it with racial intent well then they are guilty of white privilege, willful ignorance or other failure. If the identified perpetrators are guilty then they are subject to the same response. Either way SOMEONE gets taken down (put in their place, required to take ‘attitude adjustment’ sessions).
I have chickens. It’s horrible to watch a hen pecking.
We have daily headlines showing me we are no better than my chickens.
^What punishment is being administered to the individual in question? Having his name in the news? Being called something that a lot of people seem to be wearing as a badge of honor these days?
Did the offender know the history? How can you prove they knew the history? If they didn’t know the history should the punishment be the same as if they were ignorant/
Could me among those who - despite my local environment of speech/action/thought police efficiency - had no clue that a banana peel placement could be offensive.
It’s just so hard to keep up…
Snowball: I absolutely do not believe the AA students have to change. I think the culture around them has to change.
Lynchings are no joking matter to me. Anything associated with lynching imagery is nothing to joke about. In my mind, the sorority women did not overreact. I think they were justified to leave if they were uncomfortable after the discussions. I can imagine it was a very wise decison.
But it doesn’t matter what I think. What matters is what they thought and felt.
In my bubble, trigger is not a negative word. I hang out with faculty concerned not to trigger students, because they don’t want to be hurtful. They give trigger warnings. They don’t joke about it. They consider that common decency.
hope that helps
adding: I take your point this cultural change probably won’t be happening for these young women, at least not while they are still in college.
@70 Did the perpetrator KNOW and INTENTIONALLY commit an act of racism? Can you show me where this has been proven beyond a doubt?
So yes, outing someone who may have done something because it’s okay to assume their intent is a very slippery slope. But again, the court of public opinion is not held to the same standards as our judicial court system.
The really scary thing is that anyone could reasonably find themselves the center of a hen pecking.
In what way is the student in question being punished? Someone asked who did it, he raised his hand and gave a to all appearances sincere apology and there followed a larger discussion which ended up with a lot of people upset.
My guess is that one reason the discussion ended badly was that it went a bit like the discussion we’re having here, with the concerns of those who were upset by the banana peel being told that their concerns and their desire to talk about the larger context of racism on campus and our wider society were silly and overblown.
“Those KA Old South Balls were at all the southern universities, maybe nationwide.”
Oh, they definitely weren’t nationwide. We yankees don’t care about holding Old South Balls. 
Many years ago I was shopping in a store, planning to buy some separates (jackets/skirts). They didn’t happen to have my size jacket in their store, and the clerk said she would have to request it from one of their other stores. She went on to say that she had sold it to a customer who bought several items and then “Jewed her down” , meaning she got a discounted price. I suspect she had no idea what she was saying or how offensive that was. But I decided it wasn’t my role to use this as a teachable moment. I told her I’d come back, and never set foot in the store again. I could have called corporate and insisted on some training. Or I could have said something to her, politely or not. I just chose to leave. IMO she didn’t know what she didn’t know, and it would be reasonable to have someone who is more familiar with this and why it is offensive to have the opportunity to educate her. I am like Dietz- was not aware of banana/banana peel inferences. Nor pineapples.
Surely you are aware that black people are sometimes associated with monkeys or apes? People have certainly gotten in professional trouble for saying such things, even as recently as LAST YEAR. And many people have found themselves in hot water for making allusions involving black people and food. That’s why I find it doubtful that it was just an innocent littering. Too much coincidence. The kid wasn’t born yesterday.
I live in Oxford and just want to provide a little bit of information.
- To anyone who hasn't read the original Daily Mississippian article, I suggest you do so. There is a photo of the banana peel in the tree, just kind of thrown on the tree branch. If the guy had sought to cause offense, he had an uneaten banana five minutes before that he could have placed in a tree which certainly would have conveyed any offensive message. Or he could have carefully arranged the peel on the tree branch, which he did not do.
http://thedmonline.com/greek-life-retreat-ends-abruptly-bias-concerns/
- The banana peel was not placed immediately outside of a cabin occupied by black sorority members. The news story says it was seen by one of the black students while she was walking across the camp from one session to another. From the story: "McNeil said that around noon on Saturday, she was walking with friends to their group session across camp when one of her sorority sisters pointed at a tree 15 feet away. She said that about six feet up the tree’s trunk sat a lone, fresh-looking banana peel."
- As soon as the issue of the banana peel was raised, the guy who threw or placed the banana peel in the tree immediately "fessed up" and apologized for any unintended offense. He has certainly made a point of publicly eating the bread of sorrow and humility for his actions in an effort to calm the waters. Many students in his position would not.
- The person who first saw the banana peel, president of the local AKA chapter, raised the issue of bananas being hung from trees at American University with racist messages about a recently elected AKA member who was elected student body president at that school. A careful reading of the various articles and so forth suggests that she fully believes that the guy who put the peel in the tree meant no offense. Her anger seems to be over his failure to have known that such a thing might be viewed as an insult by black students. The reporting is sketchy, but I suspect that when the whole thing was discussed almost all of the white students said something to the effect of, "Look, no offense intended, but it's just a banana peel and its got to go somewhere." Also, I think few had heard of the American University events, and the AKA president didn't seem to understand that she might be more aware than most of something involving a sorority sister. That's when the retreat ran off the rails and a bunch of the black students left, at which point the retreat was cancelled.
- The local social media reaction has been a lot of loud guffawing. I do think the whole thing is ridiculous. But at some point a real issue is going to arise, and if this is what happens over a banana peel, then I fear for what might happen when there is a legitimate issue.
The thought never crossed my mind until now, but tire swings could also be offensive.
And that is the question of the day @sylvan8798 where does it stop?
And yes, the kid was just born yesterday. That would be yesterday when the thought of a banana peel as a racist symbol was not part of the social consciousness.
Time to check our age privilege.