^As long as you are not the one being offended?
Well I apparently officially live under a rock. I did not know what “grapefruiting” is. Came into conversation when I arrived home with a bag of grapefruit and DH told me about a podcast he’d recently heard that talked about it in a current movie. Sometimes people really are simply unaware.
Sorghum, fwiw, I had the same thought. In turning the banana peel into a banana, her concerns are less likely to be taken seriously because people could say she exaggerated or falsely reported the incident.
I found this entire thread interesting and enlightening. As a white Jewish female lawyer and lifelong NYC’er, my immediate thought at seeing the thread title was that this was going to be a discussion about people who fake personal injury accidents. Seriously, when there is a slip on a banana peel case, you must question the color, shape, thickness, smell, etc. of the peel to try to determine how long it had been on the ground. I never before thought to question the racial motivation, but I do see the connection with allusions to apes and monkeys. However, as a card-carrying Darwinist, I believe that we are ALL descended from monkeys and apes.
As for the word “thug,” I, like @Sue22, have used the word to describe people of threatening and criminal demeanor, without regard to race. The origin of the word is from “Thugee,” a group of violent robbers and thieves who roamed India several hundred years ago. I was not aware that AA people believed that this word is intended to demean them.
I currently have a pineapple on my dining room table. S14 brought one at Costco last week and I think he would about die of shame if he was aware that it signaled a willingness to “swing,” especially since he bought it for me as a gift! We are planning to cut it and eat it tomorrow. I am not planning to share this alternative definition with him.
Likewise, I thought grapefruit was just a citrus that I enjoy sprinkled with Sweet and Low. It was not until I read an article the other day in which Jada Pinkett Smith described “ing” that I had ever heard of this practice.
In any event, I feel so sad that we are still, as a nation, in a place where young people legitimately feel that a banana peel is a threatening thing. I don’t doubt their fear and I don’t believe they over-reacted in the first instance, but I do wish that there had been perhaps an experienced facilitator or psychologist present who could have appropriately handled the ensuing discussion. So sad…
I feel like a babe in the woods. I had no idea of the alternate connotations of grapefruit, pineapple or banana peels.
Apparently the produce section is a wild and crazy place. Who knew?
I am not a sports fan but I am aware that cretins in Europe throw bananas at African soccer players.
Personally I have a hard time believing that someone in the leadership group of a southern frat is ignorant of symbols of animus. If he was truly ignorant of this, his town, family, and university have failed.
There can be lots of lovely persons but it only takes one person who enjoys being provocative to create fear.
While having a well-chosen facilitator may have helped, what transpired shouldn’t come as much of a surprise when the response from many of those in the dominant majority was effective variants “What’s the big deal?” and “Why are you making a Federal Case out of this”. A behavioral pattern most marginalized groups in our society have grown quite familiar with…and increasingly frustrated with.
Interesting considering some would think it’s common sense such responses don’t tend to ameliorate/calm the problematic underlying tensions at the root of this incident.
Just think of how receptive a judge, parent, or employer would be to a wayward child/teen who responded in the same manner when confronted with the negative consequences of his/her crimes/actions whether intended or not.
I think that many rational people would say that intent is a key requirement for an act to be racist.
I don’t believe intent is a key requirement because people can be racist without being aware they are even racist, right? Many are not self-aware in this context therefore they engage in ways that show them to be racist although they would claim that wasn’t their intent and may even believe they don’t have a racist bone in their body. Doesn’t make them any less racist.
Well then, let’s say there are three categories:
- Racist with intent: The people in Charlottesville come to kind.
- Racist without intent: "Jew them down" fits this category.
- Act accidentally perceived as racist: A couple of years ago, a bag of feces was left by the Black cultural center (perhaps at Vanderbilt?). It was called a hate crime, but the bag was left by a blind student cleaning up after a guide dog who was following policy on handling waste.
I suspect the banana peel fits the third category.
It looks like this stuff is not really about the banana peel incident itself, rather than it exposing a poor state of race relations at the University of Mississippi sororities and fraternities that is easily inflamed by an act that is seen as racist, whether or not that was the intent.
It also looks like the state of race relations was poor enough that the subsequent discussion may have failed to make any improvement, or made it worse, possibly due to insufficient diplomatic skill or hardened viewpoints that leave little room for constructive discussion.
Banana peels seemingly make for a great headline.
How many here were aware of these Ole Miss stories?
or this one?
I hadn’t. And I don’t remember anything about these incidents being posted on this board. Maybe I just didn’t see them.
adding: Both news articles are from 2016. I linked on page one of this thread. fwiw
The “noose on the statue of James Meredith” incident occurred in 2014, but the court case took until 2016 to finish. http://thedmonline.com/former-ole-miss-student-austin-edenfield-sentenced-to-12-months-probation-for-putting-noose-on-james-meredith-statue/
The other incident occurred in 2016, as did the administrative actions by the fraternity chapter and the university.
Of course, incidents like these poison the state of race relations. The university’s nickname and mascot, and the state flag, are not helpful either.
An article about changing campus culture:
There is also more history, including:
Don’t forget watermelon, collard greens, fruit in general, vegetables in general, and potentially turnips!
However, the sororities (48% of women) and fraternities (35% of men) still appear to be highly racially segregated.
One issue with the above statement is that it implies equal culpability for the poor state of race relations when recent events and a long well-documented(notwithstanding prevailing denials/trivialization from some corners of the campus/state/south/beyond) has shown the culpability rests almost exclusively with one side of the fence.
To imply any sort of evenhandedness or a “pox on both houses” as the above may lead some to believe is not only misleading, but a distortion of the historical record and a discredit to those who have been the most marginalized in this issue.
Worse, the marginalized groups can do all they can to be “diplomatic” and more, but if those in the dominant majority refuse to acknowledge or worse, continue to make flippant denialistic “What’s the big deal” type comments, then no constructive conversation necessary for genuine understanding or to even start preparing to take the first steps to resolve those issues can take place.
A banana peel is not a big deal. The “dominant majority” should listen but need not take on board every demand for behavior adjustment. There was no wrongdoing, other than littering of a biodegradable material, by the boy concerned, not even inadvertent wrongdoing. Routine handling of fruit waste is not a race issue. Now, however and wherever you eat, or don’t eat, a banana someone can take offense?
A banana in a noose is very serious and offensive. Don’t conflate the banana peel story with that.
The students there now are responsible for their actions, not those committed by previous classes. There should learn about the past events, but they are not guilty of any of them.