When is it time to replace Brady Hoke?

Colleges & Universities University of Michigan
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<p>…Another disappointing game vs. Iowa. Iowa had 4 turnovers vs. only 1 for Michigan. Iowa missed two manageable field goal attempts. Michigan still lost.</p>

<p>There are quite a few articles around about replacing Hoke. </p>

<p>[Should</a> Brady Hoke or Michigan Coordinators Be on Hot Seat After Loss to Iowa? | Bleacher Report](<a href=“Should Brady Hoke or Michigan Coordinators Be on Hot Seat After Loss to Iowa? | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report”>Should Brady Hoke or Michigan Coordinators Be on Hot Seat After Loss to Iowa? | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report)</p>

<p>On the poll in this article of who should be fired. 25% say both Hoke and Borges should be fired.</p>

<p>[Exclusive:</a> Texas, USC and Michigan to pursue John Harbaugh as next coa](<a href=“http://www.chatsports.com/texas-longhorns/a/Exclusive-Texas-USC-and-Michigan-to-pursue-John-Harbaugh-as-next-coach-10-136-455]Exclusive:”>Exclusive: Texas, USC and Michigan to pursue John Harbaugh as next coach)</p>

<p>wayneandgarth linked this post from another thread discussing the possibility of John Harbaugh as a replacement.</p>

<p>[Michigan</a> Football Coaching Hot Board: Top Ten Replacements for Brady H](<a href=“http://www.chatsports.com/michigan-wolverines/a/Michigan-Football-Coaching-Hot-Board-Top-Ten-Replacements-for-Brady-Hoke-10-2-4560]Michigan”>http://www.chatsports.com/michigan-wolverines/a/Michigan-Football-Coaching-Hot-Board-Top-Ten-Replacements-for-Brady-Hoke-10-2-4560)</p>

<p>This article even gives a top ten list of Brady Hoke Replacements</p>

<p>So when is it time? Personally, I’d give him another year, but these loses and close calls this season make no sense.</p>

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<p>Now. However, he will undeservedly get another year, because he’s Brandon’s guy; Brandon will double down on him because there’s nothing for him to lose at this point.</p>

<p>Here’s another Brady Hoke stats. 45 yards of offense in the second half of the Iowa game, of which 39 yards came on the final drive. SIX freaking yards of offense for the entire half until the last drive. Think about that for a second. We also went 3 and out every drive until the last drive.</p>

<p><a href=“NCAA on ESPN - College Football Scores, Stats and Highlights”>http://espn.go.com/ncf/drivechart?gameId=333272294&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Before the final fumble that ended the game, we were +4 in turnover margin. To give some perspective on how big a margin that is, while there’s no similar stats in college football, but in the NFL, since the 1960, there were only 2 instances where a team rallied back from a +4 turnover margin to win a game. To lose a game to a mediocre middle of the pack big ten team where we were +4 in turnovers shows the sheer incompetence of Brady Hoke and co.</p>

<p>Our offense in the second half of the season is as bad as 2010 defense, and this is squarely on Brady Hoke. The ridiculous offensive performance and the inability to adapt to anything our opponents do in-game, in addition to the countless amateur mistakes that have plagued Hoke’s tenure here (horrible timeout managements, miscalculation of odds, booting kicks out of the endzone when kicking off at 50 etc) show that Hoke is completely out of his league. I never thought it was possible to match the level of incompetence shown by RR’s defense.</p>

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<p>No, you don’t fire Hoke. He is a defensive minded guy and him and Mattison have greatly improved our D. Their top recruits are still young and getting better too. </p>

<p>The majority of the job for coaching the offensive was put on Borges’ shoulders, and he has failed. Hoke was never going to be a guy to come in and completely run the offense. Even then, the offense he wants to run we aren’t really able to run yet. </p>

<p>I say fire Borges and put that same kind of money into a new coordinator. Give Hoke another year. More than likely our defense will get even better. All we need is a guy that can look at our team, Gardner’s strengths, Funchess, etc and design a game plan that just makes us an average O. </p>

<p>The O has not improved, no. But the D has and our recruiting has. That’s enough reason for at least another year.</p>

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<p>Who hired Borges with the third highest offensive coordinator compensation budget in the nation? </p>

<p>3 years in and we still have the wrong guy leading our offense with a $750k comp package. How is that different from RR being 3 years in and having the wrong guy leading our defense, especially when RR only had half the budget to pay GERG.</p>

<p>Why was Rich Rod to blame for our defense and fell on the sword for it but Hoke being complete teflon to our offensive problems? Right… it’s Borges fault, not Hoke’s. Fire Borges.</p>

<p>And you are sorely mistaken when you think Hoke’s only problem is with his offensive coordinator choice. He has proven himself to be a horrible game day coach. It doesn’t matter if he completely delegates regular offensive play calling duty to Borges; he is ultimately the CEO of the team, so when Borges goes on to call his 5th play action in 3rd and 10+ situations in the game, or when Borges does stupid crap like calling back-to-back reverses (true story), Hoke should grab the headset and tell Borges to take a hike, and proceed to relieve him of his duty after. The fact that Borges is still allowed to continue with this madness at this point of the season shows either Hoke has little control/leadership as the head guy, or he’s just oblivious to how bad Borges is; either of which is not acceptable. This is how I see it. I have a lot of discretion over decisions I make at work; but if I consistently screw up over and over again in the same way that is detrimental to the company, my boss is supposed to override my decisions, and at some point take away said decision making power, and fire me when convenient, because he is on the hook for what I do ultimately.</p>

<p>In addition, **** poor timeout management heading into the half/end of game, inconsistent decision making that defies logic/probability, and just general lack of awareness of in-game situation (again, multiple times of booming kickoffs out of the endzone when kicking off at midfield after personal fouls from opposing teams) completes the mosiac that basically tells you that Hoke is a great recruiter and nothing more; but we already know that. </p>

<p>The difference is, you are willing to accept a good man, good recruiter and bad coach as a Michigan head coach, and I am not. There is nothing wrong with either, just different standards.</p>

<p>But regardless, what we are arguing is moot anyway… Hoke will be back, because Brandon needs to double down on him since Hoke is his guy, but Hoke probably doesn’t have the balls and political will to fire Borges and Funk anyway. Hoke has never let any assistant coaches go in his entire coaching tenure, so why would anyone expect any different?
You might say, well, Brandon might make him fire Borges and hire someone else. But if Hoke needs Brandon to push him to do that, he’s not qualified to be the CEO of this program anyway. We’ll probably have another 7-8 win season next year, and then either Hoke will be fired, or Brandon will come up with an excuse to give him another year. I already know what the excuse would be: THE AWAY SCHEDULE IS TOO HARD, we lose both our NFL tackles WAHH WAHH WAHH</p>

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<p>^^^^Sad, but true. :-(</p>

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<p>Hoke’s still better than RichRod at least he has an OSU and Bowl win under his belt, so don’t think he’ll get fired as quick. Plus Rich Rod had two seasons with less than a 50% wins</p>

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<p>1) Multiple times on the kick offs from midfield going into the endzone, really? I only remember one. Maybe he doesn’t trust Wile enough to get them up in the air and drop so we could potentially give them worse position. Who knows. </p>

<p>2) RRod had 2 DCs during his time here. I thought RRod got a pretty bum deal. The roster was completely depleted when he took over and he had to switch over to his scheme. Plus the alums and those in power hated him initially for not being a michigan man. So what you think of how RRod was treated or the shot that he got is completely irrelevant here. </p>

<p>Hoke has also recruited much better than RRod</p>

<p>3) Why am I willing to accept a bad coach and an average record? Because I am not yelling with a pitchfork in my hand to can Hoke? Of course I want this program to succeed and be a national power again. Don’t you sit here and tell me how I think, a very common theme for you. It is easier arguing against an argument I never made I guess…</p>

<p>I’m in the camp of “lets not blow everything up again after three years.” Especially when we are succeeding in recruiting and defense. We just need an offense. Lets just get a more competent OC. We have the money. </p>

<p>We have talented guys (Funchess, Green, Gardner) that need to be utilized better. We also have a lot of great talent coming in. I would hate to see them wasted by Borges too. </p>

<p>4) What were you expecting, for Borges to get fired mid season? How would that help?</p>

<p>5) The away schedule is tough next year. It should be easy to see whether or not our offense has improved though. I don’t think Hoke needs to win the B1G to be back again after next year. </p>

<p>6) Hoke has probably never fired a coordinator because he hasn’t had a reason too. It is probably a lot less common at small schools to swap coordinators around. Plus he was improving the team every year at his old schools. Was it overnight? No. But were they significatnly better than before he arrived? Yes</p>

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<p>“Multiple times on the kick offs from midfield going into the endzone, really? I only remember one. Maybe he doesn’t trust Wile enough to get them up in the air and drop so we could potentially give them worse position. Who knows.”</p>

<p>Once this year, once last year. When you are kicking off at midfield, you go for an onside kick. It’s almost a no brainer. A touchback gets brought back out to the 25 yard line under the new rules. Onside at 50 means the opposing team starts at the 35 yard line at worst. Blended (anticipated + unanticipated) onside success rate at the collegiate level is about 33%. You telling me those 10 yards of field position is worth as much as 1/3 the chance of starting within the opponent 50? Regardless of statistics, almost every coach went for the onside in that situation since the rule change in games I have watched.</p>

<p>“RRod had 2 DCs during his time here.”
Doesn’t change the fact he still didn’t have the right DC 3 years into his tenure, similar to how Hoke doesn’t have the right OC 3 years into his tenure. Except that Hoke has a 750k budget, basically allowing him to get almost whoever he wants, and he made the worst choice that could be made in that scenario.</p>

<p>“I’m in the camp of “lets not blow everything up again after three years.””
I understand the lack of courage and willpower to embrace change and drastic action needed for the better. I feel for you.</p>

<p>"We just need an offense. Lets just get a more competent OC. We have the money. "
Right, and the money didn’t do crap the first time. Why should Hoke be trusted to use the money wisely the second time?</p>

<p>“What were you expecting, for Borges to get fired mid season? How would that help?”
So you allow him to keep calling meaningless play actions in 3rd and 15 or proceed to run against 9 man front over and over again? Hoke needs to take over. If he doesn’t have the ability to do so (and we all know he doesn’t because he’s a career sub-500 coach before coming here), he needs to get someone who can do so on an interim basis and make Borges a lame duck. But I know one thing that doesn’t help, that’s allowing Borges to keep doing the same thing that hasn’t been working over and over again. Doing the exact same thing and expecting different result is the definition of…
Look no further than Wisconsin last year… started the season disastrously and immediately fired their OL coach 2 games in, and drastically improved throughout the season and was neck and neck with Stanford in the Rose Bowl.</p>

<p>“But were they significatnly better than before he arrived? Yes”
That’s debatable at Michigan AT THIS POINT. I think our offense at this point has regressed to the level of incompetence shown by our defense in 2010. We had 6 yards of offense in the entire 2nd half until the last drive when we were +4 in turnover margin, against unranked 6-4 Iowa… Chew on that for a minute.
We went 7-6 the year before Hoke arrived, on a harder schedule, the 3rd year of RR. What do you think our record this year will be in this third year of Joke?</p>

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<p>^^^^Sad, but true. :-(</p>

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<p>“I understand the lack of courage and willpower to embrace change and drastic action needed for the better. I feel for you.”</p>

<p>God you’re annoying. This quote plays back to what I said earlier. </p>

<p>How do you know who has the power structure in the athletic department? Is Hoke completely in charge of our coordinators or is it DBs final decision?</p>

<p>Hoke brought in who he had before, what had worked before. It doesn’t look like Borges is cutting it in the B1G though. We should look elsewhere. </p>

<p>So your rant about the horrible multiple kicking thing was 2 times in two years? Alright</p>

<p>An OL coach =/= an OC</p>

<p>Hoke is a career sub 500 coach because he took over teams that hadn’t had winning records in forever before he arrived. To expect him to take a 2 win SDSU team to 10 wins in one year is ■■■■■■■■. Look at where those teams were and then where he left them. That is clearly more important than the overall record over all of those years</p>

<p>But it is cool. Keep being super arrogant and tell me what I think. Then make arguments against things I never said.</p>

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<p>Only fire him if we can guarantee getting a coach with a proven record of excellence, otherwise it will be the same story for another 3+ years. Hoke’s record before becoming Michigan’s head coach is pretty lackluster. At Ball State he basically had loads of unimpressive seasons except for the last one where they went 12-0 in the regular season and then got crushed in the mac championship game and a bowl game.</p>

<p>Ultimately I think he needs to be fired, though. I hope I’m proven wrong, but nothing he’s doing indicates he’s going to be able to achieve the level of success everybody wants. The reason Michigan is renowned is because they used to rather consistently get 9+ win seasons. Based on the idiocy of the last and current season, I doubt that’s going to happen with him.</p>

<p>I know he’s supposedly a defensive coach, but that doesn’t excuse him for not doing anything about the atrocious offense and honestly the defense sucks too. They are very inconsitant and their ability to stop key drives is pathetic. Just look at S.Carolina’s final drive in the Outback bowl game. Look familiar to another choke job this season? The only reason people don’t think they suck is because the ****awful offense distracts their attention and RRod’s defense lowered everyone’s standards.</p>

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<p>The defense does not suck, are you blind? Of course they are going to give up a drive eventually. Their O is just going 3 and out each drive. They are human, they get tired. The D is far from sucking. </p>

<p>Do you expect a coach to turn around an awful team into a 10+ win team in a season? Then why do you count Hoke’s building years at Ball St and SDSU against him? He wasn’t taking a 2 win team to a 9 win team in a year. The team improves over time. Asking for instant results in the form of 10 win seasons and then firing the guy if he doesn’t get them is stupid.</p>

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<p>If the D gets tired from being on the field too long, so will the other teams offense, so that evens out. The defense can get a lot better.</p>

<p>With regards to what I said about Hoke, my point was that he never really proved himself. Just because he had one good season (with two big losses at the end) doesn’t say enough. Had he then coached for three more seasons and done very well, then you can say the team was truly developed and made better, but he left, so you can’t say that. He was only at SDSU for two years, and it is true SDSU is doing better now. Assuming he is responsible for SDSU doing well after he’s gone, that means he was able to develop a team after just one year, so if he is given credit for that, shouldn’t he take blame for not having the success that was expected by him after winning the sugar bowl? </p>

<p>Since the 2011 season, they have been regressing. I’m not unreasonable and don’t expect the team to always do well, but the way they has been playing given the talent is pretty disappointing. I don’t really want to make this post longer by listing examples because I think most would agree here.</p>

<p>I agree with you that he shouldn’t be fired now. Who knows, maybe he’s waiting until the end of the season to fire Borges and make some important changes, which would be an improvement. If that happens then I think he definitely deserves more seasons. However, if at the end of season he doesn’t make changes I think he will put his job at risk unless things really start to turn around.</p>

<p>I want Hoke to do well, but I’m just basing my opinion on what I’ve seen so far and it isn’t that great.</p>

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<p>So he clearly greatly improved both of those schools. It generally didn’t happen overnight too. We overachieved in the first year, obviously. Last year we lost some close games to really good opponents. This year, yeah, it hasn’t been pretty. The O has not been good. The D is improving each year. </p>

<p>I think with Hokes resume before this point, you don’t fire him. You get rid of Borges, yes. Does Hoke get full choice in the OC, or is some “expert” hired? Idk. But I think Hoke clearly gets another year. </p>

<p>I gotta say, John Harbaugh sounds intriguing. Especially is Mattison sticks around… But I think he is a stretch.</p>

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<p>I would expect that DB is checking with agents of the likes of John Harbaugh, James Franklin and Les (the madhatter). But, if an ideal candidate like one of those will not bite, he’ll stick with Hoke for another year. Who knows what will happen with Hoke going forward. In hindsight, sticking with RR may have been the way to go.</p>

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<p>RRod had Offense</p>

<p>Hoke as defense and recruiting.</p>

<p>I thought RRod got a bum deal, but I’m not sure how well that O would work long term. Not bringing in top talent made becoming a national title contender look not great too. </p>

<p>Honestly, if they can lure John Harbaugh, and keep Mattison, there can’t be anyone that mad. It would suck for Hoke, but I doubt we’d lose any recruits. We could see success the next year and people would put it all on Harbaugh</p>

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<p>The press about replacing Hoke is affecting recruiting. This was a quote from Peppers out today…</p>

<p>[Top</a> Michigan Jabrill Peppers now planning on official visits - ESPN](<a href=“Top Michigan Jabrill Peppers now planning on official visits - ESPN - Football Recruiting - Midwest Region- ESPN”>Top Michigan Jabrill Peppers now planning on official visits - ESPN - Football Recruiting - Midwest Region- ESPN)</p>

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<p>The problem is that sometimes Michigan’s performance is just terrible (i.e. the last half of the Iowa). I know it takes time to build a team and the Michigan team is young; however, when Michigan’s performance is so bad its just impossible to explain game after game people begin to have doubts and for good reason.</p>

<p>If Michigan is completely beat by multiple touchdowns against Ohio State, it might be wise just for Michigan to replace Hoke exactly at that point, and make sure the next coach keeps these best recruits, rather than leave decision up in the air.</p>

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<p>The first line of his quote was</p>

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</p>

<p>just FYI</p>

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<p>^lol… such naivete.
Try telling your future wife “I am still 100% committed to the marriage and I am perfectly happy with it. However, I am going to explore my options and date around. But don’t worry, still 100% committed”</p>

<p>btw Hoke is a career sub-500 coach because no big time winning program think highly of him and offer him a job. When you attain double digits win at Ball State and the best opportunity you get is to jump to San Diego State, that tells you how much other programs think of him as a coach.</p>

<p>Recruiting + Expertise on one side of the ball? Hmm… sounds like a former head coach of Notre Dame. I guess Hoke and said former ND coach are similar in size as well. But the way things are going, he might not even have recruiting for much longer anyway.</p>

<p>"Hoke brought in who he had before, what had worked before. It doesn’t look like Borges is cutting it in the B1G though. We should look elsewhere. "</p>

<p>Right, so basically Hoke is out of his league. Well color me not surprised, he’s a MAC-level coach after all.
BTW Hoke initially hired Borges for 350k and has deliberately raised Borges’ salary to 700k after the 2012 season. So basically he made a bad mistake, and lacked the sense to know he made a bad mistake, and made it an even worse mistake. Sure I should trust that he’ll make a good decision next.</p>

<p>“So your rant about the horrible multiple kicking thing was 2 times in two years? Alright”
Talk about missing the point, it was just one of the few examples I listed about his game day miscues. But again, the point here is moot. Everyone already knows he’s a mediocre game day coach at best.</p>

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<p>^^^^I completely agree with bearcats on this one.</p>

<p>I didn’t include the first part of Peppers’ quote because I thought it was BS.</p>