<p>mlevine – how’d your rugby team do this semester?</p>
<p>I play for Brown</p>
<p>p.s. TELL your teacher you have a concussion…they’ll gladly give you an extension.</p>
<p>mimk has a good point.
It would have taken me an extra year at Colorado state vs a private with a liberal arts curriculum to do what I wanted to do. </p>
<p>And on that note, NO ONE is recognizing that by going to state U you are giving up a liberal arts curriculum if that’s what you really want. Granted, you can go to a lesser private that gives merit aid (lesser in relation to top public v top private)</p>
<p>Scout – you are right. And I’ll reiterate my point. COLLEGE EXPERIENCE.</p>
<p>“None of the kids on this thread (including but not limited to MLEVINE) have given any indication that their parents fall into this category. All they’re saying is “they won’t and I can’t.” There are very few parents who, in fact, do fit into this category.”</p>
<p>That is absolutely untrue. My freshman roommate’s family fit into this category (just a note here – she was affected on several levels because not only did it dictate where she went to school, but she barely had any money at school because she didn’t qualify for work study and there were few if any non-work study jobs on campus or in the entire campus vicinity). </p>
<p>My friend, who I mentioned earlier in this thread, had parents who bought a 100K lexus with money that could have otherwise been spent on his education. </p>
<p>I’m not sure what makes you think this doesn’t happen. And a lot of the talk here is theoretical – what happens when a parent refuses to pay? Well I’m bringing up the parents who can but don’t.</p>
<p>One of the very big generational differences here is that in my day, it was relatively rare for parents to be willing to pay for their kids’ college, and those that did not have parental support would not have dreamed of attending a private college. The vast majority of the kids in my high school were headed off to the state u. campus *in our town<a href=“which,%20to%20this%20day,%20is%20one%20of%20the%20best%20financial%20bargains%20in%20the%20country”>/I</a>.</p>
<p>I was extremely grateful that my own parents were willing to support me through college, but at the same time I was very cost conscious and did my best to keep the costs down. I opted for an out-of-state public and chose to live there year round to rather than returning home in the summer, in part because I wanted to establish residency as I felt bad about the costs. I also was very conscientious about trying to cut the cost of my housing. Most of my college friends were paying their own way through school, so even if my parents were sending money from home, I was very cost-conscious and aware of the need to be frugal. When I went to law school I did not even bother to apply to any of the prestige private schools, though I was interested in several – but after I looked at comparative costs there was no question in my mind that the state public was the way to go. </p>
<p>It was actually somewhat of a surprise to me that my kids wanted to attend private colleges, and, while I understand their reasons, I do think it is a luxury that would be beyond my means without financial aid and which really isn’t my obligation to fund. If the state U was good enough for me and their father, it is good enough for them. (I’m sorry, I know all of the arguments about “fit” but my personal experience was that the public university was a big place with room for all kinds of students with all kinds of interests – I had no problem at all finding my niche with compatible students, and I definitely did not fit the stereotype of a typical big state U student. I never once attended a sports event; I never attended a frat party or even met anyone who was in a fraternity. I graduated 33 years ago and I still keep up with many of my friends from college. I was 16 years old when I started college, rather shy and very far from home, so if I could figure it all out, then my 18-year-old offspring should have had an even easier time.)</p>
<p>It happened that each of my kids in turn was offered generous financial aid from a private college. My son went off and essentially made a mess of his first 2 years in college, so I cut off the flow of money to him while he went about the business of growing up; in hindsight it would have been better had he opted for the in-state public. I was as clear as could be with my daughter about my expectations, and I am somewhat astounded at how hard she is working and how well she is doing. It was actually a little difficult for me, because I know that she was not very happy with her social life freshman year – her “college experience” entailed a very heavy work load, including her paying jobs as well as classes, and probably a student body far less compatible than what she would have found at any of our state u. campuses. She’s there for the academics – and I can definitely see that she is making the most of her experience – but the choice still comes down to what we could afford with the financial aid offers that were in front of us at the time. I honestly can’t imagine that either of my kids would have held it against me if I told them I couldn’t manage the private colleges --the fact is that they expressed very little interest in dollar figures and simply left it to me to tell them “yes” or “no” after the financial aid offers came in.</p>
<p>ClaySoul - </p>
<p>I thought I was good enough to write the paper because I “thought” I was thinking straight. That “thought” was one of many thoughts that certainly were not striaght, haha. I think the concussion-for-an-extension has been overused by the upperclassman ruggers, so it didn’t work with all my teachers anyways.</p>
<p>Bard is terrible. I got significant playing time as a freshman because only like three other kids have contact sport experience. We went 0-6. How’d you guys do?</p>
<p>calmom: I think, as usual, you make excellent points.</p>
<p>Our experience was a bit different in that we had an excellent financial situation and lost it, so I had encouraged my kids to dream about any school they could be admitted to. Admittedly, originally that was my value, not theirs. (I also attended state u.) Additionally, they saw most of their friends going off to elite privates; it’s just that kind of neighborhood.</p>
<p>However, if I couldn’t have swung it with FA, I can’t imagine them not making the best of the opportunities they had either. D’s first acceptance was from best state u in rolling admissions. She was thrilled; not dismissive. It was a financial and academic safety, and she beamingly said, “Well, at least I’m going to college!” I was proud of her.</p>
<p>We’re lucky that a lot of families in our school district who appear wealthy do send their kids to public colleges so my kids won’t be justified in resenting me if I do the same. Unfortunately the same families don’t feel the same way about their 16 year old’s entitlement to a new car the day after getting a learner’s permit!</p>
<p>
Assumptions and hearsay. Your freshman roommate - how do you know what her parents’ finances looked like? How do you know what else they may have given your roommate over the years? You’re just hearing the disappointed kid’s story. (“My parents never buy me anything.”)</p>
<p>How long did your friend’s parents save for the Lexus? What did they put off buying for years so they could buy the car? How do you know what their finances looked like? It’s all from your friend’s point of view - did you hear the parents’ side of the story?</p>
<p>Unless the parents are on Forbes richest person list, or the Hollywood or sports A list, there is no way for you (or me) as an outsider to determine that they can “unequivically” pay for anything.</p>
<p>As I said, none of the posters here have claimed to have parents themselves who fit into the “unequivocal” category. It’s all “my friend’s parents” or “I know a kid who”. About those people, you know nothing.</p>
<p>We’re ranked number one in the country, division 1. We’re the New England and Northeast champions. </p>
<p>We went undefeated during the regular season. Our only loss was at a preseason tournament to a team (Army – who does push ups for CLASS) who we later shut out. We beat Harvard 67-0 and Yale 72-10 (good clubs). </p>
<p>In other words, we rocked the rugby casbah :)</p>
<p><em>takes off braggy hat</em> :D</p>
<p>And in women’s rugby, basically no one has any contact sport experience unless you played rugby in high school or were like me and played rugby as well as played on boys teams for other contact sports.</p>
<p>I think something that many also don’t want to address. What makes a person; in this thread it’s mainly young students; believe that they “DESERVE” to have their college, especially a high cost college, paid for my their parents? I’m not talking about the parent who won’t pay 1 dime. I’m talking about the person who thinks that their parent should allocate ALL EXTRA MONEY to the kid’s college education.</p>
<p>Assuming a parent was willing to contribute to the college education, who is it for the kid to judge the parent. So what if the parent bought a $100,000 lexus and is willing to send the kid to State U. Why does the kid think the parent should automatically buy a ford focus and send the kid to Harvard? The parent is the one working. The parent is the one giving up the money. Therefore, the parent is the one who gets to decide how much and other reasonable limits.</p>
<p>Muffy – your comments make me think about my family. </p>
<p>We never went on trips to Europe, or Disney World. We didn’t shop at Banana Republic. I shared an absolute old junker that was formerly my Dad’s, but I didn’t care; it got me from A to B. In fact, it had character.</p>
<p>But it was always excepted that my sister and I would work our butts off and get into great schools, and we knew that our parents would do everything they could to help pay for it. I guess education was just very, very highly stressed in my family. I, for as absolutely as long as I can remember, was expected to go to college and knew I could. I’m not saying this was a burden in any way, just a way of looking at it. I’m saying my family made education such a priority that it probably informed my parent’s willingness to pay for my sister and my dream schools (both of us eventually ended up at our first choices). And I feel lucky for it.</p>
<p>
Yep, and even if a kid did have parental support, they may not have dreamed of attending a private college and absorbing the cost difference. Parental support was oftentimes strictly conditional, as in my case and with many of my peers. Conditions…we’ll pay for in-state public U…no privates, no OOS tuition. And of the in-state U’s, there are only two schools we’ll pay for…forget the rest. Work hard, get into the best school you can, and go…end of story. Although, having few options made it real easy…one app, one acceptance. And, since I attended the state flagship, I knew d----ed well I’d better make the best of it since no transfer options either. Not that I ever considered it, even with a rocky first semester. This was my ticket and I had to make it work, warts and all, and I did, grateful for the opportunity. </p>
<p>At least I had the freedom to choose my own path once I was at the U unlike my dad. His dad, my grandpa, sat him down with a vocational-type book and, after review, told him since he was very good at drawing, he would (not should) become an architect. So, off my dad went to the local tech college, lived at home, and worked his own way through to become a Registered Architect. Talk about generational differences…:eek:</p>
<p>Mel,</p>
<p>you sound like a back, or worse a scrumhalf… </p>
<p>Acutally you sound a bit like my d when she had to choose schools… she picked apart everything, except herself. I finally had to call bs… what’s the real problem? When she finally admitted it was issued she had with herself, the stress went away… </p>
<p>You have to forgive me eariler for assuming you were female… but you were mirroring my D behavior. Your finding reasons for things not working everywhere but with yourself. It’s going to be that way, where ever you go, because your the constant in the equation… it’s not if I only went here or there, I’d be more challenged, but in the same token, you’re not pulling a 4.0 so I guess you’re challenged a bit. Sure you’re picked up a A here and there… just a quick question have you done organic chemistry yet? </p>
<p>Let us know how you fare with that class, before you decide your school is too easy…</p>
<p>Opie,</p>
<p>I actually started as a flanker but had to get moved to lock/prop because I’m the strongest kid on the team and one of the biggest. It kind of sucks, I really like flanker and as one of the seniors said, I’m definitely an awesome flanker. But when they can choose between a 200 lb kid who deadlifts 450 and a 220 lb kid who doesn’t know what a deadlift is, I can understand why I’m now a lock/prop.</p>
<p>I think that organic is a challenging class anywhere you go because it’s really the class that seperates the chemists from biologists (or so I’ve heard). But I like LACs because I could take a diverse schedule, and the fact that our math department is hella easy and that being one of the best writers in your seminar class is upsetting when it’s full of writing/lit majors. I don’t like the academic scene at Bard mostly because my high school was much harder.</p>
<p>I found out why Bard isnt ACS certified…you need to have atleast 5 chem teachers and we have 3. We just hired a new one (I got to help, went to lunch with her then went to her presentation to the deparment) and will hire one more next year.</p>
<p>FLANKER 4 LIFE!!! LIFFFEEEEE!!!</p>
<p>I can’t play anything in the tight 5 because of bad shoulders…not really big enough anyways. I’m actually not really big enough to even be a flanker!!! :D. </p>
<p>To quote my coach…“I love our forwards!!! When I think of forwards…I think of people built like Keisha, and Jamie, and Kate, and… (looooooooong pause)…and have the tenacity of Rachel!”</p>
<p>And I can’t play anything in the backline because I am neurochemically incapable of staying in a lane…ball…TACKLE!!</p>
<p>Ironically we actually have one of the smallest packs in the country. We’re all a bunch a misfits. But ROCKIN misfits. </p>
<p>What D do you guys play in? DII?</p>
<p>:) </p>
<p>C’mon then you have a tradition to uphold… don’t sound like a back…
I’m old now, but my days were spent as a second row. I was 6’7" and 250. Played a decade until a couple knee injuries in a year (missed alot of work) caused a spousal retirement (quit or send a check home) when I had a chance to tour japan for pacnw side. best sport in the world…</p>
<p>“Assuming a parent was willing to contribute to the college education, who is it for the kid to judge the parent. So what if the parent bought a $100,000 lexus and is willing to send the kid to State U. Why does the kid think the parent should automatically buy a ford focus and send the kid to Harvard? The parent is the one working. The parent is the one giving up the money. Therefore, the parent is the one who gets to decide how much and other reasonable limits.”</p>
<p>You should read this whole thread. But I will repeat myself anyways. No one is OBLIGATED to pay for their children’s education. No one is OBLIGATED to feed them more than Ramen noodles every day. But it’s an awful shame when they can and don’t. </p>
<p>A $100K Lexus is completely frivolous, no ifs ands or buts. If he had bought a $40K lexus, he could have funded a year and a half of schooling. It’s about priorities. It’s a sad, sad, day when it’s more important to you as a parent to buy a frivolous car for yourself than to reward your child’s hard work in getting into a place like Harvard by helping them go there (note that I say help – most students, including myself, take out loans, work full time in the summer and part time during the year at good paying jobs that I have earned for myself). The kids help too. It’s not ALL the parents. I also had a considerable savings that I started accruing at age 13 that I used to pay for an expensive summer internship. I got very little help from my parents that summer, instead using all the money I had saved by working every summer since I was 14. But even after having worked every summer, and even during the year, at well paying jobs, and doing a good job of saving, there was just NO WAY i could possibly handle an ivy league education entirely on my own. (see point 2 below). </p>
<p>Here are a couple reasons why I think the parent SHOULD be judged. And I’ve probably said all of this before. </p>
<ol>
<li>I would be proud to send my child to Harvard. Sending my child to Harvard (or wherever they want to go) would give me infinitely greater satisfaction than me driving a fancy car ever could. If you feel the opposite, your priorities are way off. Why not wait 5, 10 years until Junior is out of school and any loans are paid off and THEN buy your fancy car. Poor you, you had to wait to get your LEXUS. But then you’ll have a Lexus and a forever grateful kid who just got an awesome and irreplacable education and college experience. Clearly, it’s your choice. But if you choose the Lexus over your child? You’ve just chosen wrong. A Lexus is a thing. An education is an experience of a lifetime. It’s selfish. Just because someone isn’t obligated to do something doesn’t make it selfish to not do it. </li>
</ol>
<p>This of course depends on mitigating circumstances and details. I had a long pm conversation with UnivMom about this. If the Lexus is a work car – bought on lease – bought for 20 grand at auction, i don’t know, then we have a slightly different story. But generally speaking, when a person chooses frivolous things for themselves over something important for another, that’s just wrong. </p>
<ol>
<li>By being well off, having a high EFC and refusing to pay it, you’ve just effectively eliminated probably well over 50 (or more!) of the top schools in the country for your child. It’s not as if they are capable of getting 45k+ in loans a year like you either can or already have in your pocket (I’m not saying any parent should take out 45k+ in loans a year, I’m making a comparison on credit and the financial ability to make things happen). Sure, it is their money, but keep in mind, your child doesn’t yet have the means. You on the other hand do. It’s called sharing. Most of the top schools, other than publics, are need-only. If you refuse to pay any or all of the EFC, your child simply cannot go to most of the top schools in the country. Now I have nothing at all against publics, if a large school is right for you and you can get in out of state. But it’s definitely not right for many, and I value doing what’s right for your kid. And good luck getting into UNC or CAL out of state!! So in conclusion, you have just cut off a world of options for your kid. So that you can have a Lexus now. Your choice to make. But selfish and misguided. </li>
</ol>
<p>There are worse things in the world than not being able to go to your top choice school. My roommate freshman year really wanted to go Yale, but knew her parents wouldn’t pay, so she went to Tulane on an almost full scholarship. She’s doing just fine. She’s getting a great education. (But she also likes Tulane – it was NOT the fit for me). So there are always options. But it just strikes me as a really horrible shame when someone has the means but won’t provide. </p>
<p>And FWIW, with financial aid, it would have been MORE expensive for me to attend a public out of state than Brown. </p>
<p>I have a feeling what you might say – this 21 year old is young. Naive. When SHE grows up and has kids and needs to send them to college, she’ll think differently. Well I can tell you now that I won’t. I am an extremely generous person, and I care deeply about the happiness of others. I’m a potter – I give away my stuff rather than sell it because I just love giving it away. I don’t have much money but I recently made my annual happy christmas donation to a kids program and will simply not buy some stuff I wanted for myself. I’m also in debt (long, complicated, not-fun story), and I know that being in debt can be managable and not the worst thing in the world, so I’m not afraid to take out loans for my kids.</p>
<p>We’re sadly DIII. Yes, we’re that bad. But if I transfer to Vassar, even though I’ll be doing crew, I still want to play some rugby. They’re awesome, and I’d love to play with them.</p>
<p>I have trouble with my football instinct, AKA blocking. I always loved being able to blind-side people.</p>
<p>Opie, who’d you play for?</p>
<p>dude if you apply to transfer to vassar and are ANY good at all, you’ll get in no question. they recruit! it’s varsity there! </p>
<p>I got recruited there. </p>
<p>Contact Tony Brown. But I’m not allowed to say that because we at Brown HAATTTEEEE Vassar!!! :)</p>