I think it is extremely important to address very real atrocities that have been done in this country in the very recent past. It’s critical and it’s disgusting that we collectively ignore this part of our history.
With that said, I think it’s just as critical to show how we’ve changed and grown because of these experiences. We now have informed consent and IRBs and a whole slew of protections.
Sure, but they think they are the ones learning something new and there are pediatricians on their side. They are trendy and were probably among the first to eat quinoa, too. It has nothing to do with eugenics. It’s more about green tea, kale, and preschool yoga.
http://www.latimes.com/local/orangecounty/la-me-adv-vaccines-doctor-bob-20140907-story.html#page=1
Apologies if the tone there isn’t great. I think it’s an important point.
But this hasn’t happened. You are wrong. And yes, I think ultimately calling these people stupid and/or shaming them might be the only thing that makes a difference.
You’re making the assumption they are.
Withholding vaccinations from your children because you thought the doctor was arrogant and condescending sounds every bit as much about parent ego. “I’ll SHOW YOU!” And ultimately, it’s the child who is put at risk as a result of these silly power struggles.
And instantaneous autism? Really?
With all due respect, we’re telling you something to try to help you be more effective solving this problem. Autism is a concern to people, a biggie in my experience.
Who is “you”?
And who is “we”?
Deborah, I don’t know what point you are trying to make. IT IS STUPID to ignore established science, and it is SELFISHLY STUPID to endanger others because of one’s wackjob beliefs.
The people in the anti-vax clusters in California are not being looked down on. They are generally affluent and successful and think they know more than the doctors. If anything it’s the doctors who should be insulted by these idiots who think that their online research and inputs from people like Jenny McCarthy are equal to the doctors’ many years of medical training.
Who is “we”?
Fretfulmother,
Most people dont like “bossy” people, and I don’t agree that a bad bedside manner is the major issue here. I think what’s changed over the past few decades is that patients ask more questions, read more stuff on the internet, and while taking a more active role in their healthcare is good, some want to direct their care more than in the past. That has its pros and its cons. There are different rates of disease for different populations, but that doesn’t mean that the vaccinations haven’t been adequately tested on minorities, which is what was suggested.
The parents who believe this may be wrong but they certainly exist and all I’m saying is calling them names is not going to help anything. But, have at it if you like. Good luck.
Marie, above, wrote about this. I’ve heard people express this concern as well. Just relaying what I have actually heard people being concerned about. It’s not whether or not you think they should be concerned about it. It’s what they are concerned about is the point I’m making. That is all.
Departing. Very sorry I entered the conversation. Thought you were trying to figure out how to solve a problem. I’m not needing to convince you of anything. It’s not something I’m trying to win for any reason.
Deborah, you always do this! You come late into a conversation, don’t bother to read through it or actually try to understand others’ perspectives, say you are leaving, stay a bit longer, leave again and then come back. I don’t get your agenda but all it does is take away from discussions people are having.
marie, you don’t have to like my choice of words. Feel free to substitute “ill-informed” or “willfully ignorant” if you like.
And while other posters get scolded for their “tone” and made to apologize, its somehow ok here to call Drs bossy or snooty, or if they are forced into having only a few minutes to see a patient due to the demands of their big group or hospital employer, they are accused of being insensitive or uncaring, yet they are left with all the liability that goes along with caring for these patients. Healthcare is a team approach. There was a pediatrician on TV today in Phoenix who politely but directly asked parents with unvaccinated kids to stay away at present.
jym is right–it’s a good thing patients are taking a more active role in understanding their health. But it’s also important to consider the source and make sure information comes from reputable places. Of course these are skills we hope our kids learn in college. 
It’s just interesting how some people suspend logical thinking when it suits them.
Apologies, Sally. I always prefer to leave things on a good note and will sometimes stick around a little longer to work toward there being some kind of meeting of minds, but I’m generally not the need the last word gal who is going to wrestle to the ground. Not much of a debater. Speech yes, debate not so good. I just like to get along with people I really wasn’t trying to claim I know much about this topic. I don’t. I can tell you what I’ve heard people have concerns about. Doesn’t mean you have to think they’re right. No agenda.
Now I hope I really can say bye on this without getting yelled at.
Deborah, everyone is entitled to their opinion. No one is yelling at you. We KNOW what people have concerns about and have discussed them over the past 102 pages of this thread. One of the things we have addressed is the issue of false equivalency, which you are bringing up here. There is no “meeting of the minds” forthcoming with people who adhere to specious claims made popular by Playboy bunnies and pseudo-scientists or crackpot doctors wanting to make a buck. It’s not “side A with valid points” versus “side B with valid points” in this case. One side has valid points; the other has magical thinking and fear.
Uhm, the OC anti-vaxxers have OC anti-vaxxer doctors. So, somebody needs to inform the pediatricians they are seeing, too. Because currently they believe their physicians are the reputable ones. I don’t think calling the docs crackpots with stupid patients is the best approach to a solution. But, carry on. I could be wrong.
Have a good evening, ladies. Best to you coming up with solutions.