When Policy Goes Wrong

Colleges & Universities University of Maryland - College Park
1

<p>I didn’t want to hijack the transfers thread, so here is a more thorough explanation of how Maryland’s transfer policy is keeping out top students (namely me).</p>

<p>Applied to transfer as a Junior for Aerospace Engineering (minus ENAE 100/200 and 283)
Status: Rejected for general admission to university</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon GPA (+1 summer class at Pitt): 1.675 @ 83 credits (2001-2004)
Montgomery College GPA: 4.000 @ 70 credits (2011-2013)
Cumulative GPA: 2.739 This is why I was rejected (not by the Clark School, but general admissions).
Graduation: May 2013 w/Honors, Double Associate of Science in Aerospace Engineering, Materials Science and Engineering</p>

<p>EC/Accomplishments:
One a handful of graduating 4.0 students interviewed for the Montgomery College Board of Trustees Scholarship and chance to speak for the 2013 commencement ceremony (today actually, will know by end of April).
1 of 3 students invited to participate at the National Academies’ National Summit on STEM education in Community Colleges
1 of 2 engineering students asked to attend to a legislative reception to lobby, alongside the college president and board of trustees, state law makers for the college’s capital projects (STEM related buildings).
College Math-Science Center Chemistry Tutor (only non-faculty chem tutor), CRLA Certified. 1 of 2 part time jobs (other remote IT support).
Member Phi Theta Kappa Honor Society
Deans List 5x</p>

<p>Personal Info:
Maryland homeowner <– for those of you young people, that means wife and I pay thousands in state taxes and fees (also why I can’t look at schools outside of the area)
Stay-at-home parent (wife works 8-5:30 M-F I’m home with daughter during that time), was going to switch her to daycare so I could go full time during the day. Between taking care of her, classes, work, and homework I am pulling 80-90 hour weeks (when spring break hit I slept for about 5 days straight). </p>

<p>Of note:
General admissions officer “these grades are from what, like 12 years ago?” “3.0 isn’t a hard cutoff, it’s just worded that way to help cut down the number of non-competitive students applications” Riiiiiggghhhttt.</p>

<p>Associate Dean of Clark School (the person who gives the thumbs up or down on internal appeal cases for engineering) says “I’ll go to bat for you, but I don’t think admissions will let you into the university.” Pardon me, but if the person who has autonomy to make or break appeal decisions into a LEP says that, something is wrong.</p>

<p>Phrases either said to me or that I have gleaned either from emails or recommendations letters (when possible):
“… he is one of the brightest students I have ever taught.”</p>

<p>“His mastery level of the subject matter and his deep and high cognitive level in analyzing the concepts is simply admirable.”</p>

<p>“He is the type who has strong self discipline and can improve and enhance his knowledge on his own.”</p>

<p>Math professor “For students like you, I don’t give bonus points”</p>

<p>English teacher “You should consider the honors program”</p>

<p>OChem “You’d be a good candidate for honors Ochem II if you decide to go that route.”</p>

<p>Adjunct professor “Out of a pool of hundreds I’ve seen in my classes, I can confidentially say he is my best student”</p>

<p>Electrical Engineering professor “I am using his lab reports as material to help teach the class.” </p>

<p>Professor of ~20 years - “he is in the top 3%”</p>

<p>Here’s Maryland’s form letter wording
“…we are only able to admit students whose records show strong academic performances and above average grades.”</p>

<p>Do you see the disconnect?</p>

2

<p>That is awful. I feel like you should start making phone calls but I am not sure what difference it will make. I hate it when people get treated as stats and not as a person…you’d think anybody with a brain would be able to see that on your second go around you are an awesome student. I completely understand…I barely graduated high school back in 1997…and I turned that around. i would be devastated if that kept me from being admitted now.</p>

3

<p>I would fight tooth and nail to appeal that crap. That’s truly unfair and I don’t think anyone who more than glances over your record would disagree. You need talk to someone face to face and plead your case. I beg you to do that much.</p>

4

<p>Spoke with Maryland admissions in person this morning. Showed them my letter about potentially giving a valedictorian speech, but apparently they count my 14 W’s from my time at cmu against my gpa (they were not WF’s but whatever). That puts their calculated gpa for me at 2.1. So it wouldn’t matter if I took another 60 credits at 4.0, I cannot ever raise my gpa for them above a 3.0.</p>

<p>They told me I could appeal, but that it wouldn’t matter in my case, my cumulative gpa is just too low. </p>

<p>Nobody, not my friends, not my professors, my engineering dean, even the board of trustees at my college, can not believe I got rejected because of my CMU grades.</p>

<p>Sent from my SCH-I535 using CC</p>

5

<p>I would consider contacting your state legislators for help.</p>

6

<p>It does seem as if there has to be some recourse. You clearly have shown yourself to be an outstanding student. I honestly wish you the best of luck.</p>

7

<p>Write a letter to the president of UMD - Dr. Loh?</p>

8

<p>Maybe someone high up at the community college would be willing to take up your cause? This is exactly why taxpayers should be funding community colleges - success stories like yours. Lots of older students go to CC after not doing well in college when they were younger. It isn’t a crime to have a terrible undergraduate experience and it shouldn’t follow you around 12 years later.</p>

9

<p>I am sorry this is happening and I hope you can get a sit down among those who feel this is not right and where the problem is. I do want to point out, however, that this happens in a lot of venues. Try to get into medical school with the same record. Same thing. My neighbor got into one out a number of medical programs and had to uproot her family to go as she was rejected two years in a row from any of them most notably her local choices and she knew that she had to grab this opportunity. She had a 4.0 from the days of yore as and UG and the same for her courses that she picked up to meet premed qualifications when she decided to give this a go. 10-10-10 on the MCATs too. It’s a competitive process. </p>

<p>So, yes, there are schools and programs to which one can never be accepted for any number of reasons. Yours is because of the grades from many years ago, but there are any number of reasons for that. If it is a matter of everyone being on board that you should be accepted but a school rule that out and out forbids it, that can be addressed, but if someone is balking and putting the quash on it and pointing out the transcript and the general requirements as backup, it’s a whole other thing.</p>

10

<p>How about asking CMU if they can help you out; revise transcript so that the Ws count as if you never took the class (it is entirely possible they will do this for students with good excuses). Or anything else CMU can do to help the GPA. Since you took all your pre-engineering credits at the CC, I don’t understand why anything from CMU has to count.</p>

11

<p>I think you need to get a few people with clout to help you with your appeal. Your state legislators, the head of the community college, and anybody at Maryland who will weigh in.</p>

12

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<p>I was a painfully immature, naive, bullheaded brat and burned a lot of bridges at CMU within the engineering school, but perhaps time heals all wounds? Worth a try.</p>

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<p>He’s too busy starting initiatives and fundraising to be concerned with issues like this. At best he would defer to the admissions director’s decision, but more likely the letter would be ignored.</p>

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<p>I have brought it to the attention of the board of trustees at my school and am currently tracking down the appropriate MHEC administrator to present my case. I’m afraid contacting a legislator on my own is unlikely to get anywhere without the support of a more official body.</p>

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<p>Indeed the Associate Dean of the Clark School of Engineering is on my side, but even he admits he is powerless when it comes to admissions.</p>

<p>To be honest the reason this bothers me so much is because I feel that I have kept up my end of the bargain both as a student and good Maryland citizen. As Muffy put it “This is exactly why taxpayers should be funding community colleges - success stories like yours.” </p>

<p>I appreciate the ideas and support! Will let you know how things turn out.</p>

13

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I don’t agree with this–legislators often like to do constituent services. I wouldn’t wait to do this.</p>

14

<p>You need to find out who exactly is vetoing your acceptance and pin point that person and work from there. You know who is supporting you and is helpless to accept you. Where is the blockage? You might also find out that you are not going to be accepted because they don’t want you. THey may see no reason to change or except policy for you, because you are going to be a decline anyways. But you need to find out exactly where the crux of this is.</p>

15

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<p>It seems MHEC agrees with you. They were very pleasant and agreed my situation was extremely rare. I met Tom Hucker the legislative reception I spoke about in my first post, but I’ve gone ahead and contacted all of my Annapolis posse.</p>

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<p>That would be Associate Director of Undergraduate Admissions Michael Robinson. They are sticking to their guns that nobody receives a holistic approach to their application if they don’t have above a 3.0 cumulative GPA (as college park calculates it). My argument is that this rigid filter keeps out redemption students like me, rare as they may be. That’s an issue at the policy level, as such, I would need a majority of the College Park board of trustees College Park on my side to get it changed.</p>

<p>I don’t expect anything to come from this exercise, but I need to see it play out in the off-chance that somehow this ends up working out for me. That said, the MHEC administrator told me to come up with a plan B as these things don’t move quickly, if they move at all.</p>

16

<p>It’s kind of age discrimination. You’re getting a 12 year GPA lookback and 20 year olds who went to college for two years right after high school only get a 2 year lookback (I understand it is unusual for transfer admissions to care about high school grades after two years). </p>

<p>If there are any private engineering colleges you can commute to maybe they would be sympathetic to your story. Good luck!</p>

17

<p>Would you have the same issue of 3.0 minimum gpa requirement at UMBC? UMBC offers mechanical engineering degree, applies in the aerospace industry.</p>

18

<p>da60net - according to the Policies and Procedures established by the University Board of Regents with regards to transfer student admission, Sec. III-4.00, II B (1), states: </p>

<p>“Students who have completed an associate’s degree, or 56 or more semester hours of credit in university parallel courses with a minimum GPA of 2.0 from public institutions of higher education in Maryland, shall be considered qualified to be admitted to a USM institution. In cases where the number of applicants exceeds the number who can be accommodated, or where programs require higher performance standards, admissions decisions shall be based on criteria that provide fair and equal treatment for native and transfer students in accordance with COMAR Title 13B.06.01.02-1.”</p>

<p>If you completed 70 units at cc with a 4.0 gpa you are eligible, according to this. It doesn’t say anything about credits earned at out of state institutions. </p>

<p>Regarding the arbitrary 3.0 min. gpa cutoff, they clearly have the duty and authority to establish reasonable criteria for admission to specific programs, but do they really want to argue they are being reasonable here? </p>

<p>You’ll get in - stick with it and keep us apprised.</p>

19

<p>You might also consider George Mason, a good local engineering school for older students.</p>

20

<p>My plan B is gwu. It’s the next geographically closest school to me that offers a similar degree (also their admissions office has told me that they have the flexibility to heavily consider recent work not only for admissions, but scholarships). Technically umbc follows the same standards as umcp, but I have a feeling they have more people with functioning brains over there because they get far fewer transfer applicants. Regardless, it and gmu are plan C if gwu doesn’t work out. Right now I’m signing up for fall MC classes that will finish out all possible gened, science and engineering classes I could take without diving into more CS and EE. That will hopefully help to further separate me from my cmu grades and minimize time (cost) at GW.</p>

<p>Sent from my SCH-I535 using CC</p>