<p>Soccermom, I just watched the Youtube link you posted. Very interesting indeed. Aren’t we all cut and paste writers and speakers.</p>
<p>lorelei: I agree, there is no need for people to attack Hillary too hard. I have to point out that Obama has by and large done a good job of taking the high road. </p>
<p>I actually like Hillary a lot and like McCain too, each for different reasons. I think Hillary is brilliant, hard working and would make a very good President. But whether it is her fault or not, she brings too much baggage of the past with her and that would perpetuate the polarization we see in Washington. This polarization has resulted in the extremists on both sides dominating the debate along with special interest lobbyists. Obama has at least a fighting chance to decrease this polarization. Hillary does not.</p>
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<p>This will be the big thing that will grind the campaign to a halt. She can lend her campaign $$millions, but if donors won’t pony up $$$ because they believe that Obama is a done deal–then she’ll be out millions from her own pocket. I can’t see her doing that.</p>
<p>a question: does any one think an Obama/Clinton campaign could/would run and win? does anyone think she would take the VP slot?</p>
<p>“This will be the big thing that will grind the campaign to a halt. She can lend her campaign $$millions, but if donors won’t pony up $$$ because they believe that Obama is a done deal–then she’ll be out millions from her own pocket. I can’t see her doing that.”</p>
<p>It was reported yesterday that the Clinton campaign is about $7 million in debt, whereas the Obama campaign is on track to raise $30 million again this month.</p>
<p>1) I don’t think Obama would/should offer her the VP slot nor should she accept it if offered. The reason:</p>
<p>He would lose some Independent and Republican support. He would also have a harder time being the candidate of change. She would undermine her own chances to win in a subsequent election…she does not need the name recognition that the VP spot provides. He would be better off choosing someone else- maybe some other woman like Gregoire of Washington or an anti-war military type like Jim Webb. She would be better off going back to the Senate and run again next time, especially if Obama loses the general this year.</p>
<p>2) If she is the nominee she would do well to offer the slot to him but again he should not accept it. The reason:</p>
<p>She would benefit from co-opting his movement and oratory, his message of hope, change. His funds and fundraising prowess would be available for the campaign. But he would undermine his own credibility as a messenger of hope and unity. If she wins, he would be tainted by any mistakes she makes in her administration. If she loses he would gain nothing except be linked with Hillary.</p>
<p>I also agree with Hanna and 1sokkermom.</p>
<p>Hillary will be “fine” and go back to the Senate and keep bringing millions in pork to New York. Upstate has such lightweights in Congress (and more to come, by the way) that we actually need her. </p>
<p>Pack your bags and head to the new federally-funded Woodstock Museum…</p>
<p>until the bodies of the superdelegates are on the floor. Her “graciousness” at one point last night was another manipulative move calculated to reflect well on her. She didn’t mean it for a minute. But she and her husband and their managers have alienated so many, first with the race insinuations, next with plagiarism attacks–she took a poll and found out we like Obama’s high-mindedness, so she’s trying it out for herself. </p>
<p>I think people are naive when they suspect Hill and Bill of “noble motives.” I cannot wait to see her and her serial predator husband go down in flames.</p>
<p>And by the by, she has overspent to such a degree in her campaign–good prediction of how she’d ruin our economy.</p>
<p>well- I have discovered the reason why Hill is having trouble ( besides Bill)
just checked out her website store, since the Obama merchandise has been sold out for months.
I can’t help but wince when I read her slogans.
- Hillary cares about me…* sounds like she is campaigning for Dr.Phils slot
- I’m for Hillary, ask me why? * which sounds like I need to remind myself
and my personal favorite * I’m your girl!*
I haven’t thought of myself as a girl for a good long time now & I am at least 10 years younger than Ms. Clinton.
How can you run on "experience"but refer to yourself as a “girl”?</p>
<p>About that out spending…if I had been that poor, single mom who scrapped together $20 to donate to her campaign that Clinton has told us about ad nauseam, then to read in the NY Times her entire campaign has been living high on the hog <ex: 25k=“” for=“” hotels=“” in=“” vegas!=“”>, I’d be livid. Talk about arrogance.</ex:></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/us/politics/22clinton.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/us/politics/22clinton.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin</a></p>
<p>“25k for hotels in Vegas”</p>
<p>Yeah, that doesn’t look so good. I mean, I’ve never stayed in the Bellagio; the Flamingo or Bally’s was good enough for me. And I’m spending my own money, not donor funds.</p>
<p>[Guide</a> to Vegas: The Bargain Hunter](<a href=“http://www.vegas.com/traveltips/guide/bargainhunter.html]Guide”>http://www.vegas.com/traveltips/guide/bargainhunter.html)</p>
<p>never had any desire to go to vegas, but my inlaws stay there cheap all the time!</p>
<p>My favorite Hillary bumper sticker is one that’s on the wall of an interior designer I work with. “Just elect the b*****”</p>
<p>“Yeah, that doesn’t look so good. I mean, I’ve never stayed in the Bellagio; the Flamingo or Bally’s was good enough for me. And I’m spending my own money, not donor funds.”</p>
<p>Huckabee’s wife was at Hooters in Las Vegas this week.</p>
<p>Hillary will quit when the money and/or the delegates fail to add up. IMHO, most of her problems relate to Bill: </p>
<pre><code> her continuing marriage to the creep
his role should she become president
the perception of unfairness or “machinery” when an ex president teams
up with a candidate to attack another candidate
</code></pre>
<p>I happen to think Bill was a pretty good president but an awful husband. I think he can be blamed for Al Gore’s defeat. And I blame much of Hillary’s eventual defeat on him as well.</p>
<p>That said, I think other people’s marriages are mysterious. I barely understand my own and would never presume to understand another marriage, even that of close friends.</p>
<p>“Not THIS woman because she married her success, rather than earned it.”</p>
<p>I look forward to the first woman U.S. president, and I definitely want that to be someone who earned it by coming up herself through the political ranks, not riding on her president husband’s coattails.</p>
<p>I don’t fault Hillary for having to be on coattails. Due to the sexism in the U.S., it would have been virtually impossible for her to have entered politics as a candidate at the age that when her male peers could. </p>
<p>Consequently, I think that our first woman president will have to come from amongst the women who now are at the oldest, no more than about age 50. The women who are around Hillary’s age and older will probably have to “settle” for being elder stateswomen senators.</p>
<p>That “married her success” line has been bothering me, too. Hillary Rodham married a smart, charismatic, sexy, dirt-poor law school classmate from Nowhere, Arkansas when they were in their mid-20s. She moved to Little Rock to help him start a career. That’s a far cry from, say, Liddy Dole, a smart, competent mid-career woman who leapfrogged not a few rungs on the career ladder when she became the trophy wife of a U.S. Senator (after maybe breaking up his 24-year first marriage). That’s a lot more like marrying success, but you don’t hear that much about her. (And Liddy Dole is undoubtedly a smart, competent woman, who now has a substantial track record of achievement.)</p>
<p>I think Hillary contributed a lot to Bill Clinton’s success over the years. I think she was in a tough position a lot of the time, in terms of owning her own accomplishments. Bill had a meteoric political career. At what point was Hillary supposed to say, “My turn now” before she did? At what point could she even say to herself, “You will do more good on your own than you can do by supporting Bill”? She made the right choice.</p>
<p>And all the time, of course, she knew he was three inches from the edge, that his career could be gone in a minute, that she could be (and ultimately was, repeatedly) humiliated publicly to an extent none of us can imagine, and stuck in Little Rock with nothing to call her own. Should she have left him? Maybe, but what if – heaven forbid – she loved him? And he her, notwithstanding his faithlessness? What if they had a child, whose happiness and comfort she took seriously?</p>
<p>That’s part of what I don’t get about all the anti-Hillary anger from supporters of traditional values. Hillary did an awful lot of things right from a traditional-values standpoint, because at bottom she is a traditional-values person, much more so than her husband I suspect.</p>
<p>“At what point was Hillary supposed to say, “My turn now” before she did? At what point could she even say to herself, “You will do more good on your own than you can do by supporting Bill”? She made the right choice.”</p>
<p>I completely respect what you’re saying and it makes a great deal of sense but for me the bottom line is that she doesn’t have the experience, doesn’t have a track record and hasn’t worked her way up. The reasons for that, as you pointed out, are valid and understandable, but I wouldn’t want my accountant’s wife signing off on my taxes, either. Being married to a position doesn’t make you qualified to take it on, especially since she never had security clearance, and the presidency isn’t an entitlement to be bestowed on someone. That said, I think she is a fine, hardworking senator – albeit one with whom I disagree on policy.</p>
<p>JHS: I agree with much of your analysis of Hillary. I don’t care whether Hillary got an unfair advantage because of her husband. What I want to know simply is: “Who is she, what does she stand for and what kind of President would she make?”. The answer to me is : She is a brilliant woman who stands for a lot of good things, works hard, and would make a very good President. That is all that matters. </p>
<p>Aside from the fact that Obama would make a better President.</p>
<p>“Being married to a position doesn’t make you qualified to take it on, especially since she never had security clearance, and the presidency isn’t an entitlement to be bestowed on someone.”
I could NOT agree with this more!! I’m ready for a woman president, BUT I can think of others, like Diane Feinstein, who HAVE worked their way up through years of public service, and are far more experienced, and just as capable as Hillary.
No one’s “time has come” .That implies to me that someone is “owed” something and frankly that is one reason I don’t support Hillary.</p>