<p>I am very sensitive and cry a lot. Sometimes I’ve even surprised myself at times when I’ve cried. I would be a terrible person to look to for advice on crying. :(</p>
<p>zoosermom, has your husband always been that way? have you? so does he see the crying as admitting defeat? or some sort of manipulation? how often do you cry in arguements ? does he try to make you cry to win? just trying to better understand the details. my own reaction to people crying during arguements is mostly defensiveness - it takes alot to make me cry and i expect that of others sometimes, but understand some people are more prone to showing emotions or crying and other reaction is annoyance that the other person cant argue without crying,</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s any one response from a guy to seeing a woman cry (or vice versa). I don’t see how making someone cry equates to “winning” an argument and I’m very sorry that your husband sees it that way.</p>
<p>Naturally, it’s an argument style that is learned early on in childhood. Many arguments end up “I’m right, you’re wrong” when really two people coming from different backgrounds are likely to see things different ways. There may be some satisfaction from “winning” an argument, but it diminishes the other person. For any person getting something out of being a winner, they’re likely to lose the relationship.
Zoosermom, I feel for you. It’s really painful. I don’t know if your H knows any other way. He may not have the tools for a healthy way of dealing with disagreements but you can change yourself. When the argument gets hurtful or involves verbal abuse, you disengage. Remove yourself. Go to another room or leave the house. He can’t win an argument if he’s alone.
Partricia Evans has some excellent books on the topic of verbal abuse and explains the origins well. Her “Controlling People” is a good one, but they’re all good.
You don’t necessarily have to leave the marriage to stop this, but you do have to get to the root of your feelings and change your behavior to see any change at all. He won’t be motivated to change as long as his behavior works for him. Don’t take it personally. This style of argument is more about him than you.</p>
<p>Psychologically, laughing at someone you make cry is considered a shame based response. So, he acts shameless in the face of his shame. It is similar to how kids who can’t achieve in school eventually “just don’t care.”</p>
<p>That doesn’t make it right, it’s just what it is.</p>
<p>I’m sorry you are trapped in this communication style. Would he be willing to go to a couple of counseling session with you, just as a tool to find a new set of “rules” for the relationship?</p>
<p>It sounds painful.</p>
<p>This is a really touchy subject for me. I cry when frustrated. It’s not manipulation… it has happened at very inconvenient times and I just can’t help it. I can generally escape to someplace alone, but it’s awkward when I start to tear up and need to make a quick exit.</p>
<p>That being said, if I cry in front of my husband, whether or not he is the cause of my frustration, he gets VERY uncomfortable and defensive. He’s convinced that I’m manipulating him and becomes angry. It’s always been a big issue in our marriage because, due to this, I cannot count on him to “be there for me” when I need him the most.</p>
<p>Guys, I appreciate the good thoughts but you’re reading more into this than is there. I’m not really a crier and my husband isn’t really a fighter, so I’m not talking about a serious marital problem. The context is that a group of women were talking about the different ways that men deal with different of their wives’ emotions. My husband gets freaked out even if I cry because I’m injured or someone has died. It’s been very interesting to see how other men deal.</p>
<p>Thank goodness you’re not in this situation, but certainly the topic is painful and emotional enough to have brought the discussion out. It’s unfortunately common. But even if you’re not in this situation, this has turned out to be an informative thread. Maybe it will help someone.</p>
<p>"Psychologically, laughing at someone you make cry is considered a shame based response. So, he acts shameless in the face of his shame. It is similar to how kids who can’t achieve in school eventually “just don’t care.”</p>
<p>I’ve actually seen this in someone raised by a verbally abusive parent. This person was shamed his whole life. It’s really unnerving to watch him laugh at another person’s mistake or feeling down. His whole family does that. He’s not a bad person, but was raised that way. It’s all they know- raised by a bully.</p>
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<p>If he grew up like I did…and considering he’s likely to be older than tail-end Gen X like myself…that’s very likely the case, many males, especially in older generations weren’t trained to be emotional nurturers if we were raised in the traditional “old-school manner” regarding gender norms. </p>
<p>Worse, among many men raised in this manner that I know or whose rants I’ve read on the web, one big sign of this disconnect is the commonplace complaint that women…especially GF/wives expect them to “play psychologist/psychiatrist”* or be a BFF*. </p>
<p>Moreover, most male-male friendships I’ve had weren’t anything like ones I’ve seen among female friends where they confide most/all of their problems/negative emotions in far more depth and in greater detail. </p>
<p>Doing what’s accepted in the latter with the former type friendships tends to be regarded by many males as TMI, whinging/complaining too much, and/or even creepy. In fact, this very issue is one of the factors one older male college friend has had a hard time keeping most friendships…especially mutual male acquaintances who find he’s “too emotional” and whiny. </p>
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<li>I do try because I’ve had many friends…including male friends who really needed someone to talk to/vent about negative emotional problems. Unfortunately, it tends to really wear me down mentally/emotionally…especially when the venting goes for 4-5 straight hours without break.</li>
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<p>I don’t see tears as a sign of weakness, I see them as a sign of strength.
*Real *tears are about showing your core feelings, about making yourself vulnerable, which is one of the most courageous things you can do.</p>
<p>People that laugh in the face of others “weakness”, are actually terrified at feeling out of control. Hardly a demonstration of strength.</p>
<p>That’s very interesting Pennylane. Very interesting. My FILwas the biggest bully I ever met. Not physically abusive, but definitely abusive. You may have hit on something related to my husband.</p>
<p>** I do try because I’ve had many friends…including male friends who really needed someone to talk to/vent about negative emotional problems. Unfortunately, it tends to really wear me down mentally/emotionally…especially when the venting goes for 4-5 straight hours without break.*</p>
<p>Venting for four to five hours?
That isn’t venting, that is feeding their anger & frustration.
Would they really rant for that long if they didnt have an audience?
Better that they take it out on something physical.
Go for a run or shovel someone’s sidewalk.</p>
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<p>I’m just having a hard time reconciling the above statement with the statement about your husband feeling like he’s won when he’s made you cry. I guess now you’re coming out and saying you misspoke?</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>I think she is saying she is not much of a crier, he is not much of a fighter, so it’s not much of an issue.</p>
<p>Yep that’s right. mimk6.</p>
<p>That was a remarkably nasty post Classof2015. Remarkably nasty to imply that I’m a liar.</p>
<p>To clarify, I was sitting at the lunch table with co-workers and the subject came up of the different ways that couples fight, which was interesting to me on its own, and one of my co-worker mentioned that she cries at everything and when her husband sees it he will basically do anything to stop it. Since my husband is not like that at all, it made me wonder. CC is a great place to get a sample of the whole spectrum on any subject. That’s what I was doing, not looking for marital advice, although I appreciate the kindness. My marriage isn’t perfect, but it’s been pretty good for 27 years.</p>
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<p>To be fair, this took place in the context of a funeral for his mother, ADHD, having to deal with aftermath of some ill-advised financial decisions by parent, hoarding, being without family help due to older sibling deciding to vacation instead, my staying in his mom’s house in question, and the venting taking place from late afternoon till evening. </p>
<p>Moreover, by the 5th hour, I tried to give him a hint by walking out of the house for a breather. When he decided to follow and continue the rant, I immediately snapped at him and told him to shut up and that while some problems were out of his control…just as many were self-inflicted through his prior actions/inactions. </p>
<p>While snapping did make me feel bad for a bit, I also made it clear to him that I wasn’t his parent and that it wasn’t fair to put that burden on me…especially considering I’m several years younger than him.</p>