<p>I will start to “realize” that our state flagship could be better than an Ivy League school the day it stops admitting so many students from our town who never took an honors or AP course in their lives and who partied their way through high school.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild,I am sorry if you feel I am "persisting " in singling you out. I have only asked you a question about a Kentucky/Tennessee basketball issue and mentioned you in terms of Texas because another mom was excited that her son had great opportunities at Texas and you had made a post (264 I think )that I believe another poster also referenced. I will keep in mind your concerns about referencing you in the future.
At Texas, off course there are kids at the bottom of the class. It’s a PUBLIC school and has an obligation to its citizens. Are all the kids there going to be rocket scientists-of course not. Are there kids there that bring other things to the campus but are not necessarily at the top of their class.Of course. So what? It’s real life. We all bump into people every day at varying levels of ability .</p>
<p>Why anybody cares when others realize? Keep the secret, let us all benefit before all these others will start flooding even more (the gates are open anyway). And it is not just flagships. State school is a very good choice for UG, especially if Grad. School in plans with huge tuition payments. I am delighted that we have saved so much by not paying UG tuition because of Merit scholarships. We are in much better shape to start paying for Med. School (still waiting for some Merit scholarship $$ there). D. could have gone to Ivy, was not even in her vocabulary. She has been accepted to few top Med. Schools in the country, graduating from state school (not flagship) in few weeks with awesome package of awards, the most prestigious Honors society memberships (by invitation only), medals, pins, unbelivable experiences at places of her lifelong dreams…well beyond her expectations of UG.<br>
Look around, look close to home or far if it is desired, do not pay much attention to name. Visit, see which one matches kid’s personality and all goals, not just academics. You will find your gem. Let others enjoy their Ivy.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I think the reason people cannot separate the cost from the perceived benefit is because for most people, it’s all about the money. Nearly every decision is first a financial choice - where to live, which school, car - all driven by financial limitations first, then other considerations second. Few people in this world don’t have these constraints, certainly, but for most middle class people, they are overarching and a way of life.</p>
<p>However, some don’t want to admit their financial limitations or choices, so instead they convince themselves - and possibly try to convince others - that their choice is really better anyway, regardless of cost. Kind of a reverse snobbism. This is the person who’ll argue that an old Dodge Dart is superior to a new Lexus, or The Cheesecake Factory is just as good as Joel Robuchon, partly because the cost or REI has to be factored into everything.</p>
<p>Perhaps a nicer way to put it is that the more money you have, the more your focus shifts from value to quality. Most of us care about both, but the balance between them is different. Again, this is why I wouldn’t buy a Rolex, because I just can’t see the value. Perhaps if I were super-rich, I would want a Rolex for its quality.</p>
<p>Hunt’s analysis of the restaurant analogy is brilliant. I’ve read it several times.</p>
<p>I also agree with PizzaGirl’s thoughts in post #296, particularly this:
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<p>I’m still reading this post, though, because my daughter will have a difficult choice. While we’re full pay (at least until my son is also in college), our available funds are not such that we can be truly indifferent about the cost aspect of college. In my view, it is easy to say that UNC-CH instate, at $16,000 per year, is preferable to U.Va. OOS, at $44,000 per year, even though I truly love U.Va. and had great experiences as a graduate student there. With a child who is undecided as to her major, who is determined that she will be happy wherever she goes and who has been accepted at several private schools (with more decisions to come soon), I am still seeking insight as to the best place for her, and cost will play some role in making that decision.</p>
<p>To the extent that people insult others or pass judgment on the choices of other families here, this thread is useless. To the extent that posters contribute insight into the analysis they used in making their decisions and updates as to how the process worked for them, it is priceless.</p>
<p>I think UNC instate vs. UVA OOS is an example where the quality is pretty darn close–I’d be hardpressed to suggest that anybody with financial issues choose UVa without really special reasons.</p>
<p>“To the extent that people insult others or pass judgment on the choices of other families here, this thread is useless.”</p>
<p>Precisely.</p>
<p>Schokolade,Good luck to you and your daughter with making a choice. Even as a mom of a UVa grad(and a VT son), if money is an issue, I would agree that in general UNC-CH over UVa sounds like a great/preferable idea for a North Carolina resident .</p>
<p>I have a Rolex and have worn that brand for many, many years. I like the quality and luxury watches are something H and I have always enjoyed. We aren’t very into cars, but we do like our watches! It is correct that it is all about what is important to each individual. I know I have shocked many people with what our family has paid for a particular breed of cat that we adore. Even my very non-affluent kids have chosen to purchase this breed for themselves. Certainly not for everyone, and neither are expensive private colleges…</p>
<p>Hey, Schokolade–how about UNC plus a decent used car? You’d still save a lot of money, but your D would think you’re super-generous.</p>
<p>MomOfWildChild: I do not wear a watch, not even a cheap one. My cellphone (or laptop or other device) tells me the time, or I just glance over at someone else’s Rolex ;).</p>
<p>You could not pay me to have a cat :).</p>
<p>I would generally prefer the AAA restaurant over Cheesecake factory- except when I am in the mood for the Endive Salad or the Bang Bang Chicken.</p>
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<p>The “so what” is that some of us highly value a school experience that (again, sorry to keep stealing your phrase, Hunt) has the ** highest concentration of highly able accomplished students and the lowest concentration of students who aren’t that interested in a high-level education. ** </p>
<p>I appreciate that UTexas (etc) has the mission to educate the whole of its citizenry and not just the rocket scientists. However, I’m simply not interested in that environment as one for my children’s college experience, all else being equal. And I don’t see why I need to be. And I don’t particularly care that maybe my kids could get where they want to be from U of I equally as well as they will from their elite schools, or that there are plenty of people who are very well accomplished and successful from U of I whose parents paid a lot less. That’s not the point.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl,That is great and you clearly have the financial resources that allow your kids to go wherever they want to go. You obviously (as in “I” was not interested in that kind of environment) would not have been comfortable in a public school environment and have made that clear . I would imagine your kids have picked up on that from you. I am glad for you that you did not have kids that wanted to go to Illinois as I imagine that would have been tough for you to accept that kind of choice.</p>
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Another analogy: if you’ve got plenty of time, you might choose to take the scenic route.</p>
<p>“Perhaps a nicer way to put it is that the more money you have, the more your focus shifts from value to quality.”</p>
<p>-Yes, if a kid cares. But if a child absolutely made sure, she does not care about going to Ivy, send her where she feels she belong. BTW, did not mention in previous post that D’s no flagship state school is ranked #2 in UG teaching in the country, and yes, it beats Harvard in this ranking (whatever it means, do not ask, I have no idea. But quality of classes were awesome. Very dedicated profs, who were dedicated to students first, not to their own research as it is at many top colleges. D. said that their attitude, love for their subjects and love for teaching was contageous and made classes very interesting)</p>
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<p>Is that a reference to me? I wrote a not terribly serious anecdote about my husband surviving a high-speed head on collision in a Dodge Dart and you take that as evidence that I suffer from reverse snobbism?</p>
<p>I don’t care how people spend their money. Some people buy big boats, some buy second homes, some like to buy an undergraduate experience for their kids. Some kids want to experience what they and their families think is the best education around even at high cost; others go looking for merit scholarships because they want to graduate free of debt and with all college savings intact so they can work for themselves ASAP. The latter is a description of my son, who passed on the chance to be full-pay at the Ivy schools for a very large merit scholarship at Vanderbilt (full tuition, fees, some cash for room and board). I don’t feel the slightest need to convince myself or others that his choice was good; it was entirely his decision, and it has worked out extremely well for him.</p>
<p>Since someone suggested that posters tell about their choices and how they worked out, I will volunteer that I also have a daughter at Big State U, paying less than half tuition through a variety of awards. Her major isn’t offered at non-land grant schools, and she wants to pay for vet school herself, so the choice (hers) seems reasonable to us. She is just a freshman, so I can’t say how it all worked out in the end yet.</p>
<p>Am I happy that I am able to keep the retirement funds in place, travel, look into buying a new piano, and pay cash for a new car (not a Dart, not a Lexus)? Sure, but that wasn’t the motivation.</p>
<p>I passed on reading this thread for a long time, since I suspected it would quickly turn into a Battle of the Strawmen and an unsavory display of snideness and implied insults. I should have trusted my instincts.</p>
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<p>I think that’s wonderful, and I’m not one of those who thinks that Vanderbilt is any kind of appreciable / meaningful “step down” from the Ivy League. At that level, I think it’s all good.</p>
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<p>It would have depended on the circumstances, as with anything. There’s a part of me that doesn’t like going down the road that everyone else around me does. In fact, that was part of the difficulty in accepting that S really loved / wanted to swing at NU – precisely because it was an in-the-box choice for a smart Chicago-area kid, and we wanted him to go more out-of-the-box since he was fortunate enough to have that opportunity. He’s happy, so it’s all good, but it wouldn’t have been where we would have placed him, if it had been up to us.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, Glad NU has worked out! Happy is always good.</p>