I think I may have been a woman partly affected! In 1982 I started out in engineering, and what turned me off was the nerdiness of my classmates in the programming course we were all required to take. After my freshman year, I changed my major to biology and later chemistry. I never intended to major in computer science, but if I had, I could see it happening to me. (I actually did have a computer at home and had taken BASIC in high school.)
Rubbish. No doubt that a bunch of media people would come up with a narrative in which media is the prime mover in behind demographic change, but the story itself cherry picks ancedotal evidence and flies in the face of the reality witnessed by the majority of people on the ground. My question is why we should belive that 35% number of female computer science majors in the first place since I never observed anything like that then or (obviously) now
I don’t know how accurate that is but anecdotally, discouragement probably plays a part. My parents used to actively discourage me from pursuing computer science because why would I “want to be stuck in a dark room with fat nerdy men who have cheerios stuck to their shirts”. Then it was because I wasn’t good enough at math because I got an average score on the math portion of my GED and a C in economics (pro tip: don’t ever take a micro econ class online during summer quarter, kids!). This despite the fact that I later redeemed myself by self teaching math I’d never taken in school to pass a placement exam, happily made solid B’s in my math classes, and A’s in my programming classes. It’s a good thing I’m so stubborn!
It’s not easy. My youngest is a CS major. She is often the only female in class. She was the only female CS intern at her government internship this summer. Her classmate and colleagues love, love, love video games. D doesn’t really see the appeal as I never allowed a console in the house when the kids were home. She’s a cheerleader. She can distract a whole room because heels make noise when they click across the floor. She may also be one of a very few women who never has to wait in line for the bathroom at a conference.
Just because evidence is anecdotal doesn’t make it wrong. When a number of factors are likely in play, causality is hard to prove. But the one number is easy to verify–the number of women in the field has dropped and doesn’t seem to be bouncing back.
I majored in CS 30 years ago. There were few women then, there are fewer now. It’s sad. CS is such an amazing field and offers so many opportunities. I will admit I eventually found coding all day not to my liking, but my tech background opened so many other doors for me.
CS is not for everybody, but there have to be more girls out there for whom it would be the perfect fit. I just hope organizations like Girls who Code and Girl Develop It can help overcome whatever it is that prevents females from taking this path.
No problem. So the evidence, per se, is neither right nor wrong but just some observations, selective observations gelled together to make a point. How about the number of women majoring in computer science at all the various asian universities? Up, down or the same? Do women who might formerly have studied in the US and now get their degrees at home since the degrees are considered equivalent in the workplace? Maybe the continualy increasing number of females in law school and medical schools are the women who quit computer science because they saw that law and medicine can be better paying jobs and better lifetime careers? Just throwing a couple ideas out there that are a lot more consistent with my personal observations.
Our friends’ D, who has a CS engineering degree and has a job with a great salary at a private firm is unhappy because her supervisor is Indian native and sexist, not treating her well. She’s looking for another job, where her contributions will be properly valued. She feels her supervisor’s attitudes are cultural and that her finding a new job is the easiest and best solution.
FYI, I have witnessed first hand the social pressure my daughter faced in trying to pursue CS. It’s mainly subtle / indirect. I think initially / middle school time frame, the main issue is that kids interested in computers “hang out” on web sites / forums - and there’s incredible sexism and sexual harassment.
Even if you hide your gender, the misogynistic comments spouted by the other kids (who are of course typically ~13 yo boys) totally repelled my daughter.
So in high school, she was already starting out a little bit behind, compared to kids that had been doing stuff on their own.
But it continues in high school. She was just at a (terrible) academic engineering summer program at UMass Amherst. She was doing a group computer engineering project with arduinos, with 3 other boys. One of the boys kept asking her what her cup size was. She told me “who cares, he’s just some stupid 10th grader.”
But how many girls can just keep ignoring comments / attitudes like that? I guarantee you it’s not 100%.
I can see how that could happen, but most places are exactly the opposite. Women are such a rarity that their managers usually bend over backwards to keep them. Luckily, the job skills are easily transportable and there is a lot of mobility. Probably get a raise to boot.
My S was thrilled his U (USoCal) had so many females in engineering and had females in his study group and worked with them with his profs to get articles published. USC created the WISE program to support women in engineering. The year he graduated in 2010, ALL the top awards in engineering went to women!
It’s not so easy being the only girl in a computer class or on a robotics team, especially if you also have to deal with a particular subculture that doesn’t particularly respect the intellect or contributions of girls.
Pretty funny @DoyleB, it seems that somehow we have come to exactly the same conclusion completely independently except that I really don’t recommend comp sci for boys either. In all the places I’ve worked, I have never witnessed any of the stuff you and @thshadow have observed regarding women but I’m sure it happens and I can validate the rest of your post.
My D didn’t face any negative pressure in middle or HS because she did not decide until sophomore year of college to pursue CS. She did tell me the majority of employees at her summer internship this summer are middle aged men, and when she went to training at the company’s headquarters she was disappointed that the vast majority of interns were male also. (I am hoping this helps her in the job market!) Her college classes have a decent amount of female students at least. We will have to wait and see what happens once she starts working after college, if she feels discriminated against or underappreciated because of her gender.
My suspicion is that as people get older / more mature, and as you get to the workplace, it gets less and less. Obviously comments like I reported on a job could lead to sexual harassment charges, getting fired, etc. And presumably (hopefully!) at some point guys will get a clue as they get older.
But IMO it is quite believable that there are a lot less women in CS. Getting turned off when you’re in middle school / high school is obviously a critical juncture in most kids’ lives as far as picking professions go.
