If she hears from the Christian colleges soon, when does she have to commit? A lot of growth can happen in the next 8 months. It can be helpful to be able to commit in April.
I can understand that you feel safer thinking of her at one of the Christian schools. And she does sound immature. Honestly we all have anxieties about our kids’ choice of colleges, and I think it is harder when your kid changes her mind a few times, normal as that may be.
We don’t know her and we don’t know you. But in a situation like this, I would consider going to a counselor myself, for guidance during this time of transition. There are some excellent Christian therapists out there.
I did this myself and it was extremely helpful. Having a person to talk to about challenges one of my kids was facing, helped me be the best parent for her and helped with decision-making in general.
ps Why has she chosen speech pathology so early? Make sure she knows she can major in other things and still do grad work in that field.
How can you “strongly disagree” with a choice you don’t know anything about? Saying no to what sounds like an affordable option without doing any research is short-sighted. If you’re not sure that OSU has the resources you think she needs, why aren’t you helping her do some research to find out if they have them?
Have you considered making a spreadsheet of college options and listing the pros and cons of each one? It might help clarify your thinking. You should be able to articulate your reasons for why a particular school is a fit (or not) as clearly as you want her to explain her reasons for wanting to go there. Right now it sounds like the reason for not even considering OSU (not removing it from the list as a bad fit, just flat out not even thinking about it) seems to be that it’s not one of the 2 Christian schools you want her to attend. If you’re going to insist that she attend a Christian college, you should be up front with her about that. There are no strategies for saying “no” and not having your kid be upset with you if they don’t like the answer. That’s just part of parenting.
I understand your concerns that you feel like she might be choosing solely based on hearing about sorority life and that someone told her 'she would do well at a state school. ’ What does that even mean? Have you dug into that latter statement, was there any supporting information? Or asked your D why SHE thinks she would do well at a state school?
But, having gone through this with two kids so far, I agree that a lot changes and she still has plenty of time. Especially if she changes her mind a lot, just let it ride, by decision time (I would suggest she doesn’t make her decision until as late as possible) this might not even be an issue. For now your role could be to help her learn how to research schools and how to come up with a well balanced list. There are lots of schools in between these two options and probably Christian schools (or at least Jesuit) that have Greek life? The more you push her towards one type of school, the more she may push against it, or against your advice.
I spent a good deal of time reading your threads about your first daughter. You also wanted her to look at more conservative schools. Your first daughter mentioned that she had been in contact with plenty of liberal students. You said…you would look and “keep an open mind. I would urge you to do the same with daughter two.
Some questions and comments:
Did you move to Oklahoma? If not, why aren’t any of the Texas publics on your list (that’s where you lived when DD1 was applying).
Your first daughter also looked at Harding and Abilene Christian. And those were your choices for her too...or so it seems. It’s very possible that DD2 wants to have her own college search, and not re-use the schools you wanted for her older sister. Plus...older sister got to go where SHE wanted to go. Where did that end up being? I don’t think it was a Christian college and she has done fine.
You mention for DD1 that you could pay $10,000 a year plus the Direct Loan which totals $15,500 for freshman year. Do any of these colleges come in at your price point?
Now...regarding OSU...most large universities have faith based groups that students can join. Would that work for you.
Many college students want to find other young people who share their values and ideals. There is nothing wrong with that. Your daughter can find a great group of friends at a college that is not a Christian college.
Your first DD was a NMS. Does this student have similarly strong academic credentials?
I would urge you to be open minded with this second daughter regarding her college search. Try to look at the positives of the schools that interest her instead of the negatives (from your POV). Remember, she is going to college, not you.
And lastly, you had similar concerns about your first daughter in terms of not attending a conservative college. I’m betting she is doing just fine. Trust that DD2 will do the same.
She should apply casting a broad net…because lots can change between now and when she has to make a matriculation decision May 1.
You write this about your first daughter. You didn’t exactly agree with her choices either. But you said you would keep an open mind. I would urge you to do the same with this second daughter.
We let our kids decide which school to attend. I disagreed with each of their final decisions. In our particular situation, we felt that most of our kids really needed the boost of having chosen their toics or poisons. Their ideas on ideal colleges were completely different from mine.
Having said that, it’s really a personal decision. A parenting decision. I have some opinions on when and where parental decisions should prevail, but they are just that, opinions. I feel very strongly that parents should not pay more than they can comfortably afford. Just because CSSPROFILE and/or FAFSA numbers say you can pay $X , that should not prevail. Keep your retirement and living needs in mind. I’ve seen way too many parents emotionally blackmailed into borrowing or tapping money that hurt them terribly.
The other reason I firmly believe should prevail in pre-empting a child’s choice is if there is a clear danger involved. A dear friend of mine very sadly refused to allow her DD to go away to college because of anorexia that was still a present danger. It was a very difficult decision. Another refused to permit a DD to go to a school where a cousin who had some dangerous criminal tendencies was in the locale. I believe both dodged billets there. The first young woman has several serious relapses, and the cousin in the second example did involve nearby relatives, including young college kids in his activities
Many friends and acquaintances made stands on what schools they would support (financially is where it comes down to it), and their kids did just fine. Some were well to do folks that just could not see paying $X + $Y when there were what they felt equally “good” choices at $X. Yeah, some kids did bail or have been perpetually unhappy about the issue. But then, one of mine bailed on his own frigging choice.
Like you, I felt very strongly that one of my kids would have been particularly better off at a small college. He had a number of excellent such choices, LACs, and Catholic schools that I felt would have been his best choices. Instead he picked a large OOS public school. He could have gone to an instate public for less than half that price, but his choice was less expensive than the private LACs for which we were willing to pay. We acquiesced after laying the issues on the table.
Ultimately, it’s YOUR decision how you want to look at this and what you want to pay. How important is it to YOU that she goes to a small Christian school? How strong are your negative feelings about her going to OU? I agree that teens can be fickle, peer pressure and social opportunities, freedom, perception often enter into the picture too often with kids.
My eldest D is a very liberal, completely non religious, northeasterner in a sorority at Alabama. With 350+ girls in the chapter, there is pretty much every type of person, from super studious, to frat worshippers, you tubers, and many, many church goers. Church is a big thing on Sundays for many of her sorority sisters, classmates and friends. Some of the Christians she knows are also non partiers, but there is also a large segment who do go to frat parties, tailgates and bars - but also get their work done, and behave themselves.
My D used to be very binary: liberal v cons, religious v non, partier v studious etc etc… but one of the best things about her college experience is that is has opened her up to the possibility that people can be many things at once. You can attend a bar, drink alcohol (legally), do well in school - and have a committed spiritual life.
I think OSU would be similar to Bama in this regard?
Even back in the 1920s, my grandmother said she saw more partying at Hardin Simmons, a private Baptist University, than at UT-Austin (she attended both schools). Going to a Christian school doesn’t mean there won’t be a heck of a lot of partying. From my own experience, kids who are brought up in very religious homes (as I was) are ready to cut loose when they get to college.
@thumper1 To answer your questions, we are still in Texas and she does have a couple of Texas public schools on the list, but she’s not particularly thrilled with any of them. UTD would actually be my first choice, because that’s the only completely affordable one, but I don’t think she’ll get in. Her GPA is decent, but SAT scores are low. Texas Tech does not admit directly into speech therapy program and she needs to keep her eyes on the prize from the get go, it is another party school and Lubbock is just plain depressing.
Yes, for older daughter ACU and Harding was my choice and she ended up never applying to either. The younger one wanted to go to ACU for years. The older sister did end up where she wanted to go (Smith), but she put a lot of effort into getting there. This one - not so much. And DD1 is way more focused, level-headed and mature and I can trust her way more to make the right choices. It is not as much about being in a conservative or liberal college, it is about being able to withstand social pressure. And for a kid who is so easily influenced, it would be better to be among more people who share the same core values. From financial standpoint, we probably would have to take out some loans for DD2 college. Again, I am willing to do that for the right school, but not for partying. OSU does have our church-based group and that would be fine with me. My concern is that her main focus is on Greek life and not much else. She was able to give me good solid reasons for why she wanted one or the other Christian college. I just don’t see that with OSU.
When my southern evangelical friend’s D went off to NYU, friends predicted doom, debauchery and loss of faith.
Absolutely not. Instead, this gal immediately found her people, her religious services (Hillsong, within walking distance,) mentored and influenced many. Yup, in New York City.
One thing the mom and D did in choosing was look into organizations on campus, speak with school chaplains, etc. They didn’t assume only a Christian college could support her Christian wants and needs.
I kinda figured my mom job would ramp down a bit when they left for college. I had to do my best job by then. We’re never done parenting, but it helps to trust WE did our best to instill values, good sense (or enough of it,) etc. I talked to D1 about responsibilities, decisions, reputation, her future. Not out of fear, but an ongoing conversation. Easy on her.
Oklahoma, as a conservative state, will have plenty of conservative students.
Another resource might be Colleges that Change Lives https://ctcl.org/category/college-profiles/ Some of those are quite liberal, some not, all offer a more personalized experience than a large state U.
Has she considered other Christian schools, like Belmont or Gordon?
It just seems as if the search could be broadened from the two Christian schools versus OSU.
Why is she so set on speech pathology and does she understand she can do that for grad school? I am not sure it is wise to base a college search on such a narrow goal, but you know best (as does she).
I still think seeking some guidance (other than CC) would be helpful to you because it seems there is some fear involved. A child might react to that parental fear in different ways. I think it would be good to discuss it with someone, a counselor, pastor or good in person friend.
Is there any chance she’s “yanking your chain”? Maybe you’re exerting too much control in her eyes so now it’s pay back time?
Have you taken her “bait”? You’ve made it clear that she’s less mature and less trust worthy than her sibling. Do you really think she doesn’t know that? Maybe it’s her chance to piss you off.
I don’t know… but I see red flags. I grew up “the less than” child…and I certainly figured out ways to exert my control…and one way was not giving serious answers to someone who did not take me seriously as a person. Why bother when you’ll just be shot down.
This could be totally off the mark…but I would proceed with greater respect toward this child’s choices…and see if that changes the dynamics. It may open communications or bring her more back in the fold.
Hope this is helpful. Again my comments may be completely off base as I don’t know you so you can certainly disregard.
This. She must get a masters degree to become a licensed speech pathologist. Re: direct admission as an undergrad…frankly, if you can’t make the cut for getting admitted at an undergrad school then it’s going to be tough to get admitted to a grad school. In other words…her GPA in undergrad is going to need to be very high to gain admission to a grad program in speech pathology. These programs are very competitive for admissions with far, far less available seats than applicants.
Plus, she might change her mind about majors when she actually gets to college. I wouldn’t choose a college based on a specific major.
As asked, what exactly makes her so sure she wants to be a speech pathologist? Does she want to practice in schools, hospitals, clinics, privately? Does she want to work with adults or children…or both? What kinds of shadowing has she done up to now (places here are not allowing shadowing now during Covid)?
@thumper1 @compmom
Speech pathology is something she had been interested in ever since she was a patient in one. There’s also some social influence here - a lot of her church friends go either for nursing or some type of therapy. That alone would not be enough reason for me either, but she loves working with kids and she is truly good with them. Whatever she does, would have to be around kids and it does limit her options with other majors too. I am in a related field and as much as I would love something else for her, I have to admit, she is a natural with kids. She has been helping with plenty of kids who have speech delays or are ESL since she was in middle school and she is very patient and effective with them. Things may be different in other states, but when I checked out our local SLP Master’s program for myself (and I already have two Masters that are both in related fields), the number of pre-requisites I needed would take almost 2 semesters to finish. We just can’t afford for her to major in something else and then switch to speech therapy for grad school, especially when she has an option to go to school where she can start taking speech courses early on. Grad school will be on her at least partly. Her interests are pretty limited to worry that she might want to switch to something radically different. Either way, all these other options are available at both Christian colleges. She is plenty smart to do well, but I am worried about her ability to stay focused if she has to take just general Ed classes for the first two years (which is going to be the case at Texas state school,
possibly at OSU too). Both Christian schools have more varied options for what she can take during the first two years. Considering this, I see no reason to factor the possibility of her changing her mind about a major into our situation right now.
@pishicaca One Christian school did go off the list because of the social scene, so yes, if the reason for going to a particular Christian school was just joining a sorority based on what her friend of less than a year told her, it would be off the table too.
Getting directly into certain programs is often competitive at certain schools. Sometimes it is a better choice to get into such programs in a lesser known college rather than take ones chances later. I know several folks who successfully did this. My friends D went to PSU Behrend vs Main Campus because she got a direct admit to a physical therapy program. Several health field programs have this situation.
Of course, far more kids change their minds about what the want to do. As OP has noted, her D is changing her mind all over the place regarding colleges. Very normal. I’ve known more kids who have switched such gears, even when held steadfastly from early childhood, than those who have persisted Sometimes the changes were necessitated.