When you strongly disagree with your child's school choice

Parents Forum
41

Ali- a technique I learned at a professional conference for dealing with conflict with one’s staff (but it works great with kids!)

Have a sit down. Pick out a date on the calendar- October 10th? Gives her a month— and let your D know that on October 15th you, husband, D will have a sit down to review her spreadsheet. That spreadsheet will contain 2, 4, 20 colleges that she’s researched- number is up to her. It will show the stats required to get in (no point wasting time on a college where she is certain to be rejected), the likely cost to your family after accounting for merit/need based aid, and the programs your D is interested in… allied health? early childhood ed? counseling/social work?

Between now and October 15th you get to limit yourself to the following comments on her college choices- “Wow, you’ve done a lot of research” and “Sounds exciting” and “I’m impressed with how much information you and your guidance counselor have been able to dig up”. i.e.-- comments which are perfectly neutral but sound vaguely supportive.

Kick the can down the road. There are over 3,000 colleges in the US, so drawing battle lines over one or two colleges seems like a waste of time right now. Plus- your D hasn’t put in the time to research options besides the two Christian schools she now thinks she doesn’t want to attend. She wants options? Time to get cracking. Kids can check out 40 Yelp reviews before buying a new brand of shampoo… they can certainly do their internet homework on a college!!!

I would also not bet the farm on speech. She’s got a flair for working with kids- fantastic. But since you work in the field, I’m sure you’ve met colleagues who have “jumped the fence”, i.e. started in allied health and ended up as teachers or guidance counselors or social workers (anatomy and physiology? who knows which course will torpedo her interest) and of course, vice versa. So for a kid who is both young, and who you describe as immature and indecisive- I’d bank on her future goals involving kids if that’s her passion, but the educational path for speech vs. social work vs. classroom teaching suggests she’s going to need some time to explore her options.

I’d also encourage you and your husband to have a serious discussion about a gap year. If they are not popular where you are, you may have some misconceptions about them. I moved from a city in the midwest where they were unheard of (unless a kid was in rehab) to a city in the Northeast where they are very common and quite popular. So my view was “only troubled kids take gap years” and now I know dozens of terrific kids, wonderful students who are now happy, working professionals who credit that “extra year” for many things- but most of all, for allowing them to show up at college focused, ready to work hard and get everything out of their education that they could.

There could be a mission program from your church? Volunteer work in the community plus a paid job, language program to gain fluency (especially since she has ESL experience), etc. Doesn’t need to be expensive or fancy to give her time to grow into herself and be less of a “wild card” going off to college. And it gives her another year to learn about herself and be less influenced by other people.

42

Thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts! There is a lot of think about. I just wanted to clarify a few things.

  1. It is not a matter of me wanting her to attend only a Christian college, though I definitely believe she’ll have a better support system there. She already knows a lot of people at both colleges, both share a very close-knit community with our church and being around people who share her beliefs would be a good thing for somebody who is so impressionable. And originally it was her idea, decision that she stuck to for a long time. However, I would be just fine with her going to a public school, bigger school, whatever her fancy is, if it was for the right reason. Remember, the reason she gave me so far is wanting to join a sorority based on somebody else’s experience and somebody else’s opinion that she would do better at a public school. I don’t necessarily see “her” in any of this.
  2. I am not against sororities per say. I do find appealing the idea of a smaller supportive community. I hope that’s what my daughter is looking for too, not just partying. The question is if traditional sorority is the only way to get this experience and if OSU is the only place to get it. I’ve got to admit, I don’t like the concept of rushing, being chosen, etc. My D1 college has what I think of as a ‘built-in’ sorority system, where first-year students are assigned to a house, but after that it very much like a sorority system with each house having a small supportive community, house traditions, etc. without the component of having to prove yourself worthy of this community. I love that and I think a system like this would work much better for D2 and I think what Christian colleges have to offer in terms of living communities and social groups will give her that aspect of social support without the negatives of Greek life. I did some research today and it turns out one of those Christian colleges actually does have a Greek system. But back in February, when we visited this school, this stayed under the radar, because at this point my daughter had zero interest in Greek life. So, yes, I am not comfortable making decisions about college selection just based on her sudden interest in Greek life.
  3. I do realize there will be parties at any college she’ll end up at. But to me there is a difference between partying in a college where it is a commonly acceptable way of spending your free time and partying in a college where it is frowned upon and there are other things to do. Especially for a kid who has a hard time saying 'No" to her friends, even if she is really not a partier.
  4. And then there is the whole issue of “this is her college experience and she gets to choose”. If she were the one footing the bill or worked to get enough merit aid to get into the college of her choice, absolutely! But right now I am working 9-10 hour shifts with kids in person in the middle of pandemic strictly to make college possible for both of my kids. I think I have a right to have a say too. I know there are no guarantees with D2, but I think the chances of her not making it through the first year, if she ends up with a wrong crowd in the wrong college are much higher than at a college that’s a great fit for her in many ways (which she completely agreed with six months ago).
    So, we will definitely take it slow from here, go through all the pros and cons and give it more time. Thank you all so much!
43

I would not panic yet. It’s still early on in the process. My D ended up at a school she didn’t even apply to until days before the deadline because she’d taken it off her list. It was in a state she had no desire to live in for 4 years. Lots can change in the next few months. I would avoid power struggles and just encourage her to make a list of what is important to her in a school and figure out what school checks most of those boxes. I’d let her make her own decision if the finances work out. But until decisions and financial aid decisions come back there is no point in getting too worked up about anything. She might still change her mind multiple times!

44

@blossom Thank you so much for taking time to write down these great ideas! This is so helpful! I’ll definitely try it. I personally love the idea of a gap year for her, but, like you said, it is not common around here and only really messed up kids don’t go straight to college and she would take it as another failure at this point. But in case she changes her mind, I am all for it. Sometimes I feel like deep down inside she knows she is not ready to be on her own and that’s where all of the issues are coming from.

45

Ali-I find I make more progress when I mutter something that sounds supportive than when I actually use words!

FYI- I was VERY anti frat/sorority. One of my kids pledged-- had a terrific experience, surrounded by guys who were much harder workers than he had been, AND a roommate who was ROTC, longstanding military family whose middle name was “discipline” who was both a close friend and a wonderful mentor in many ways. That was a surprise to us, since we assumed they’d all be slackers and partiers with no direction or ambition. So for our kid to end up in a frat with a huge work ethic filled with ambitious and talented (and neat!) young men was a nice bonus.

It didn’t change my views completely-- it worked out for my kid which is great, I still think there is too much underage drinking and other risky behaviors overall. BUT- among my pretty large extended family, I’d say about half the nieces/nephews went Greek, half were not, and everyone came out of college healthy, ready for either grad school or employed, and happy with the choices they made.

But I had some sleepless nights for sure, and was very much hoping that during rush week he’d change his mind and opt for a “normal” social life.

46

@Alikath thank you so much for the explanation on her choice of speech pathology. I wondered if she had had a personal experience. Having has the therapy herself and helped others already, it makes perfect sense.

I just want to say that I think your responses to all the suggestions and comments has been thoughtful and gracious, and you impress me as a parent who will work this out with your daughter.

47

@compmom Thank you so much for your kind words!

48

My older kid, who was a strong student, picked a pricey out of state public university because that year it ranked first for having the prettiest girls! Kid even applied to the honors college there. It would have been an acceptable choice, but we weren’t thrilled with the reason. Fortunately, a different school came through and the romance factor fell off the radar.

49

One thing I’d privately consider is whether getting the “most perfect” college is worth so much sacrifice, if working the extra hours is a burden on you. Family needs time, too. As CFO of our family, I was frank that costs (including the non-college extras that make memories as they grow up) were important in the balance.

We didn’t even visit what became her clear #1 until early Nov of senior year, only because pressed by the GC.

50

I’m surprised you found Smith acceptable. Smith seemed very ‘hard’ to me and would not have expected my kids to find a religious home on campus. At all. My daughter spent one weekend there and was very uncomfortable with the personal questions she was asked and many things we saw around campus like a sign in the bathroom that ‘shower sex with someone of either sex is uncomfortable for all’ and being told that anyone can have a guest overnight whether the roommate agrees or not. Just surprised you were okay with all that. I think you’ll find OSU, or any school in the south, much more conservative.

My sorority experience was very different. We really were focused on school. Sorority houses do not host alcohol parties. Period. Overnight guests are not allowed. My FB page today is filled with pictures taken at a reunion of my sorority sisters last year, 40-something years after we first met. We’re all still close. Two are Godmothers to my kids.

51

@twoinanddone I had exact same concerns when we went to visit Smith. In fact, one of the conditions for my daughter to be able to attend was that there would be a way for her to go to church. I really did not expect anything to be available at Smith, because ours is not a mainstream church at all in that area, but the ladies at the religious affairs office were extremely helpful with information about what is available. There is a non-denominational student group on campus, which is better than nothing. My daughter never went, because she had a class at the same time, but it is there. What I was really impressed with was that when it became clear that nothing would work for my daughter locally, Smith actually provided transportation for her to go to Springfield every Sunday and that’s at least a 30 minute drive one way. I really did not expect that. I have not really seen anything on campus in the open that made me very uncomfortable. The housing contract actually said that no opposite sex guests are allowed over night and same sex guests are only allowed with the room-mate’s permission and for a limited time only. My impression is that even for socializing within the house they prefer to go to the living room rather than get together in the rooms. I don’t know if that depends on the house, but that was my daughter’s experience both at her house and the house she stayed overnight for new student visit. At the end of the first semester my daughter actually commented that there were way more conservative students at Smith that she expected. I am sure a lot of things are out there, but nobody is pressured to do anything they are uncomfortable with. With my older daughter, I can trust her to stay focused on academics and she is more proactive with looking for acceptable social life opportunities rather than jump into the first thing available. The younger one is not like this. That’s why she needs a college where opportunities for negative social experiences are not multiple to begin with. She’ll start the day with Chapel, if everybody is going, but if everybody is sleeping in till the first class, she’ll do the same. I am sure there are good sororities there, but she is not likely to go specifically search for one. She will fall for glitter and glamour of the more superficial ones if this is what she encounters first. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I realize that she is just not ready for college, but taking a gap year is not a good option for her either.

52

You sound like you just don’t trust your daughter one iota, down to when she wakes up in the morning. Can’t be a good feeling for her. Especially if she’s aware of the constant comparisons to older sister.

53

@Alikath

Any chance there is a college within commuting distance from your home that your daughter could attend for the first year? She would be taking general education courses during that time anyway. That way, you could monitor what she does and how she does, and she could continue to attend church with your family.

I know…you are going to say speech therapy is not possible if she does that, but I’m here to tell you…that she CAN do this. Tagging @“aunt bea” for her perspective.

From my backseat, it seems you are very concerned about this daughter going away to a college where her comings and goings won’t be monitored. Maybe her “gap year” could be taking courses at a nearby college and living at home.

54

This sounds reasonable on the face of it, assuming child does not get resentful at missing out on a proper freshman college experience because parent doesn’t trust her, and assuming parent does actually decide a year is enough to start trusting her daughter to make decent decisions. From what has been said I am not sure just a year is going to make much difference from that perspective. At some point parent is going to have to let child go unmonitored out into the world.

I’m guessing stuff has happened in the past that parent now has this view (there was a cryptic reference to not wanting “another failure” earlier) but I am not entirely sure keeping her under constant supervision whether at home, or at a college where there are plenty of people who can report back to parent if student steps out of line, is a way to help someone learn good decisions, or whether it just pushes any potential problem out further to when parent can have very little influence. Wondering if some family and/or individual counseling might not be a good idea here.

55

Ali- couple of things to consider-

1- As the others have noted- perhaps your D isn’t ready to move out. Not a bad thing, not a value judgment, kids mature at different rates and there is nothing wrong with a kid who is young for her grade AND needs another year in the nest.

2- Perhaps she IS ready to move out, and will rise to the occasion once she no longer feels “under your thumb” or at least under your watch. One of mine surprised me- organizational skills, maturity, life skills, ability to operate in the adult world- none of these things were happening senior year, and so this was the kid where I actively sobbed after drop off (not because of the empty nest- but because of my fears). NONE of the bad things I imagined came to pass. I quickly learned that I had been part of the problem. Kid forgets keys while living at home- Mom berates, so irresponsible, dad had to leave work early, everyone inconvenienced, you’re almost an adult why are you such a scatterbrain? Kid forgets keys while living in a dorm- guess what? The housing office unlocks the door, charges $20 (so no going out for pizza and a movie that week…) and that’s the end- no berating, no lecture, and therefore- kid claims to have locked himself out exactly once (that first time at college) since moving out. I have a dozen examples of this, but sometimes a parent and child get into a pattern-- and once the dynamic is broken, the kid actually does what the parent wanted all along!

3- This D may NEVER meet all of your expectations in life- worship being just one example- but may turn out to be a fantastic, honest, kind, generous, sacrificing human being anyway. I learned this with my kids own religious rebellions-- and frankly, with my own and my own parents. We all want our kids to worship the way we do, and to mirror the values we’ve taught them growing up. But if your D turns out to be an exceptional human being who devotes her life to kids in need- or kids with medical issues-- is that a bad outcome? And isn’t that a better outcome than her echoing your religious observances but being a terrible person otherwise???

Just some things to chew over. I’d sure be encouraging a gap year- a job, some volunteer/service work, perhaps your pastor has some ideas??? And does your other D have any perspective on the “I want to join a sorority” situation???

56

If you don’t think your daughter can wake up for class, prioritize, or make healthy choices… She is not ready yet for college. I’m sorry that no one around you takes gap years. We live in rural Texas and it’s quite uncommon here as well. But I would have no problem telling my kid that is the plan, if that was the best option for their situation. A college “flop” would be damaging financially and psychologically. My S22 is going to hopefully show us he’s ready for college this year and if not… It’ll be a gap year or a post grad year at boarding school for him. (He is not a behavior issue… just maybe needs some extra time for frontal lobe development.)

1 Like
57

I have to say I agree with post #51.

You say that deep down she isn’t ready to be on her own. How will you, or she, know that until you let her try?

A couple of years ago, there was a very moving post here on CC from a distraught mom. Her child went to college and it was a big disaster. The child ended up leaving college and, if I recall, moved out of state with a love interest. The mom blamed herself because she felt she pushed her kid to bend to her will, both in high school and in college. She had been a helicopter parent. The raison d’etre for the post was this: Let them fail! She had a very good point.

You can’t protect them from life. Kids are so dependent on parents now. They can’t be forever. Let her find her feet. Maybe she will wobble, maybe she will fail. But most kids don’t, do they?

You are still giving us reasons why you don’t want her to go there, but have you told her no? If you don’t want her to go there, start with that. Ask her to find some other schools to apply to. I think it’s wrong to only give her the choice of the Christian colleges she seems to have lost interest in. At one point, she liked them. Maybe now she doesn’t. Let it go.

P.S. You hold the ultimate trump card, btw. If you truly think she isn’t ready, just tell her you aren’t paying.

58

Your daughter will be in good company and among many, many students taking a gap year these next couple of years. If you indeed feel that she may not be mature enough, directed enough to go directly to college, it may be an excellent idea for her to find some activities other than college for a year. A lot of excellent, much needed community service activities out there.

I generally recommend being careful NOT to take many Community college or these days, online courses to lose first year student status for when a student is ready to apply to full time college, because the transfer pool can have financial aid, merit, housing and admissions disadvantages. So make sure your DD does not lose freshman application status if she does take college courses during a gap year.

Perhaps such a year doing church activities would be a good idea. A lot of great things to do, better choices than just heading off to college on an auto conveyer belt.

59

Jmo, but I do think OP’s concerns are ordinary. Not ideal, but familiar. Sometimes, we can’t exactly describe what and why, especially on a forum.

She believes her D shares her core religious values. I don’t see her foisting her own beliefs on her kid any more than the rest of us do with our own family traditions, expectations, or activities.

Haven’t we all had moments when we wished there was more evidence we could breathe and trust our kids? Yes, growth comes from letting go. But it comes in stages.

I just think it’s clear this kiddo isn’t ready, in Sept, to make her final list. Or justify any school that captures her attention. That’s fine. Give her time, you have roughly 3 months to watch.

At the same time, the active wavering (yes, Mom’s complicit,) is making Mom aware of other ways kiddo has yet to develop.

Gosh. Been there with my #2.

I agree, re: college decisions, back off. No in depth analyses are due at this time. But that doesn’t mean dumping total freedom on a kid prematurely.

60

Religious observance at college is NOT the same as it is living with your parents, no matter how committed a kid is to faith and God and whatever. It’s just not. Not always worse- but it’s different.

I recall going to Mass with kids from my dorm freshman year (I am not Catholic and had never been to Mass) and the priest who was probably the most popular chaplain on campus to a wide range of students- religious and not-- starting by saying “I am happy you are here, and God is happy that you are here”. The Catholic kids found this so comforting- he wasn’t rebuking them that they hadn’t attended yesterday, last week, last month. He wasn’t monitoring their behavior, making them feel guilty that they hadn’t done this or that. He was just welcoming them to God’s house at that very moment.

I found it so interesting that even the kids who described themselves as “lapsed” loved this priest so much. A close friend of mine told me at the time that after 12 years of being yelled at by nuns she was done with the church- EXCEPT for Father X. Everyone had a story of how he had kept them in the fold. So maybe no longer attending daily Mass, but attending a few times a month AND volunteering at a local food bank despite a demanding class schedule. Or attending Mass weekly but also teaching English to new immigrants. Or running the coat drive in the local public school system.

I think part of sending your kid off to college is accepting that the discipline and regularity of their religious behavior is likely going to change. Even at a Christian college; even if freshman year their entire social circle is comprised of kids who grew up just like they did. And the changes might not be bad ones. The faith that was comfortable and comforting can become something more intellectually vivid. The Bible “stories” you learned as a kid can become important and critical metaphors for living a good and holy life. Being challenged in your beliefs can make them stronger.

But if you don’t think a particular kid is ready for an independent religious life, nothing wrong with a gap year!!!