Where do high achieving but highly disadvantaged science students go?

Parents Forum
21

<p>I think a highly-motivated student will do well wherever he or she ends up even coming from a crappy HS. It might take some extra effort on the student’s part to “catch up” but it can be done.</p>

<p>I’m at a public flagship and we see lots of these students in our Honors Program. They might struggle a bit at first but they usually go on to do very well and end up in the best grad/professional programs or with great jobs. </p>

<p>I think the student in question when visiting (or talking with) potential schools, should discuss his/her concerns and find out what resources will be available. This is the kind of student who might need some extra personal attention that can often be found at LACs or in Honors Programs at larger universities.</p>

22

<p>Curmudgeon–I have no evidence one way or the other at all. The OP does: that’s why I said “know your kid.” If the kid is like my D or your D, he/she will be fine–that sounds like it’s most likely the case. If the kid is more like my S, then I still woudln’t say to hold him back (I wouldn’t change my decisions) but just know that things get problematical very fast, especially in the case of science/engineering classes.</p>

<p>Believe me, I still root for and encourage kids from less high performing HS’s to reach high, I still think my kids got an important part of their education there which they could not have gotten in a different kind of place, and I’m not sorry S is where he is now–he will leave with an amazing education. I do think, though, that some of the defiencies of his earlier education did come back to haunt him, and made the process a bit more problematical than I would have expected. I think the OP being aware of that possibility from the outcome is useful information, though her kid may well likely not have any of the challenges mine has had.</p>

23

<p>

[quote]
I have no evidence one way or the other at all. The OP does: that’s why I said “know your kid.”<a href=“Psst.%20garland.%20It’s%20not%20the%20OP’s%20kid.%20It’s%20advice%20for%20a%20friend.”>/quote</a></p>

24

<p>It is refreshing to see someone on CC using “an upwards 2100+ SAT” to describe a “high achieving” student.</p>

25

<p>Well. Huh. What else would we call a kid who scored in the 97th or 98th percentile on a national test?</p>

26

<p>I wouldn’t recommend Caltech to a kid with a poor high school background because I know kids who are struggling with the first year math course there, but most other colleges have beginning math courses that are far easier. Some even offer pre-calc courses - though not always for credit. I actually think a bigger shock for kids from bad high schools is learning to write a research paper. I do think a bright kid can go nearly anywhere as long as they are prepared to make use of the study centers and tutoring opportunities every college has.</p>

27

<p><a href=“Psst.%20garland.%20It’s%20not%20the%20OP’s%20kid.%20It’s%20advice%20for%20a%20friend.”>quote</a>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>(psst. curmudgeon. Sorry–my bad)</p>

<p>Mea culpa. Overall, despite my error, I usually feel that these kinds of threads are about general discussion, not just the original post. Which is why I was willing to put out there my less than perfect personal situation. For whatever it was worth (maybe not much).</p>

28

<p>And they are worth a lot. I responded in kind but</p>

<p>YOU have TWO data points, while alas - I have only one. ;)</p>

29

<p>In response to the original question of where to go to school, I wanted to second the suggestion of Case Western Reserve University. I’m sure there are other great suggestions too, but I think Case is great for math science students from fabulous schools but also a very good school for math science kids from inner city or rural schools. Good financial aid, good merit aid, medium sized so not overwhelming, and the kids there aren’t in a cut throat competition with each other. Just my two cents worth.</p>

30

<p>Pomona sounds like a good choice also.</p>

31

<p>Schools do a good job of selecting students who can succeed there - even Caltech. They also, (yes, even Caltech) offer tutoring, support and class placement to match the variety in the backgrounds of their accepted students.</p>

<p>Apply to a full range - reach to safeties. Don’t pre-select based on your perceptions of what the student can and can’t do.</p>

32

<p>What year is this kid? If the kid isn’t a senior, I’d look around for a good summer program in math and sciences. Throw the kid in the deep water with the big fish and see if the kid can swim. There are many such programs and some are free for low-income kids. A few are free for everyone. </p>

<p>I was a teaching intern at a free summer program a generation ago. I wasn’t in math/ science, but the program offered lots of areas, including math/science. The truth is that some of these kids, who were stars at their rural high schools, just couldn’t cut it. Others would have been stars anywhere. They could–and did–go on to success at the most competitive colleges in the country. Some are now ON the faculty of some of the most competitive colleges in the country. By the end of the summer, it was clear who could survive and who couldn’t–and who would be willing to do the work required and who would not. </p>

<p>In response to something someone else posted…things may have changed, but based on a neighbor’s experience, I would not recommend Case. At the time he was there, the best tutors were charging $50 per hour and requiring a minimum time commitment of 10 hours. He could not afford the tutoring he needed. He flunked out. Things may have changed there; I don’t know. </p>

<p>Many colleges offer FREE tutoring. (It’s even work-study at some colleges.) If money will be an issue, I’d make sure this kid went to a college where free tutoring is readily available.</p>

33

<p>I don’t know of any college which accepts kids who they think will flunk out.</p>

<p>Having said that, and having known lots of kids (both back in the dark ages when I was in college as well as now) who do take time off, flunk out, step off, whatever the current euphemism is… I think it’s more a function of the kids drive, stamina, ambition, need for sleep, whatever you want to call it, then the kid’s academic preparation.</p>

<p>Back in the day, the kids I knew who were having academic difficulty mostly came from the powerhouse schools-- Dalton, Andover, Scarsdale high, Stuy, Horace Mann, Exeter… Freshman year kids like me were intimidated beyond belief by them, but by sophomore year it all evened out. Probably the most distinguished kid I knew academically came from a coal town in Appalachia; his HS taught math through trig; had never had a lab science until he got to college and he graduated magna with his choice of med school admissions.</p>

<p>The prep among my son’s friends at MIT was all over the map-- schools you’ve heard of which produce Intel’s and Physics olympiad winners out the gazoo, and schools which you’d be hard-pressed to find on a map which send one kid per decade to a highly competitive college. He also knew kids having academic difficulty, and from the little I know about the kids (knew them socially and knew where they came from, type of HS) there seemed to be little correlation. However-- the grit, hard work, no sleep when a problem set is due-- is universally required, regardless of how well prepared the kid was when they got to MIT.</p>

<p>I would be more concerned about the kids verbal and writing ability then I would about the science/math prep. A kid who can’t process lots of information quickly when reading, or who is overwhelmed at writing at 4 page paper is going to have the kind of academic deficiency which subject matter tutoring really won’t address. A kid who needs a Calc tutor will be able to find one down the hall at MIT, JHU, Cal Tech, RPI, whatever.</p>

<p>Just my POV. And-- what year is this kid??? If still sophomore or junior, plently of time to take a internet based course in a more advanced math than is offered by the HS, and even a poor school district is often willing to pay the tuition since it’s so much cheaper than offereing real live classes.</p>

34

<p>Blossom makes MANY good points.</p>

<p>At Caltech, first 2 terms are pass/fail, which gives students a chance to catch up. Extremely strong students can place out of some CORE courses. Scientific writing & communication are required classes.Several classes at various levels offered in English as 2nd language. A third of the students use the counseling/academic support centers.</p>

<p>Off point, but some of this depends on the person. My friend sent her very bright son to his top choice, but he is not making the most of the opportunity. Her other S attended a local private U, which he refers to as a “prep” school. This S was rejected at the state U’s. However, in his small environment, he is thriving. He has an A average (even with repeating math), has terrific jobs and internships, lovely friends, and absolutely glows with his new-found confidence. There was no way to predict that the bright student would become a slacker, and the average S would shine for the first time in his academic and social life. If parents can’t predict these outcomes, not surprising that admission depts can’t.</p>

35

<p>There are many schools, particularly LACs, that have special programs to attract, prepare, and retain science students from URMs, disadvantaged backgrounds, and 1st-gen college students. In our neck of the woods, Colby, Bates, and Bowdoin, all have such programs. I suspect that a little searching would turn up similar initiatives at many other colleges. Here are links to just some of these; they don’t even begin to cover all the programs at just the 3 schools near me that I knew about off the top of my head:</p>

<p>[Science</a> Orientation Creates Great Chemistry Among Bowdoin Students](<a href=“http://www.collegenews.org/x6066.xml]Science”>http://www.collegenews.org/x6066.xml)</p>

<p>[Colby</a> | Chemistry Grant Awards](<a href=“http://www.colby.edu/chemistry/RecentAwards.html]Colby”>http://www.colby.edu/chemistry/RecentAwards.html)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.bates.edu/summer-scholars.xml[/url]”>http://www.bates.edu/summer-scholars.xml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;