Looks like they still get 43K applicants, so doesnât seem to deter too many. Although I know they have aggressive mailing type of recruitment.
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Oh yes, speaking from my studentâs experience at Whitman, the orientation process is terrific and the fantastic outdoor program is unique to the schoolâvia the Bob Carson Outdoor Fund they provide funds for every student, every year to go on a trip and/or to rent gear at the collegeâs inexpensive (and big!) outdoor rental shop which has everything from all types of clothing (gloves, rain jackets, pants, etc.), to a wide variety of gear from sleeping bags to kayaks to snow shoes. They want all the students to have the opportunity to do trips even if theyâve never done it before, and donât have the clothing or gear to do it.
My student has also taken classes via the outdoor program: climbing, kayaking, winter mountaineering, outdoor leadership, and is now a certified Wilderness First Responder as Whitman hosts 10 day intensive classes through NOLS on campus during their school breaks. These were all new things to him and heâs made so many friends through the program.
And the Early Financial Aid Guarantee Iâve written about elsewhereâIâm excerpting just the bit about merit awards here:
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You say no financial aid but have you run the NPC for some schools? Especially the meet full need schools? Some schools are dropping their thresholds.
As for where top students goâŚwe tried to sit in on honors college presentations during visits. Wide variety of schools including selectivity. Didnât matter where. Most presentations were done by or included students. All were impressive. I have no doubt they couldâve done well at any T20 school. That said, not all honors programs are created equal.
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Yes, if your taxable income is less than $200,000, youâre going to qualify for aid somewhere - and maybe with income above that in some cases.
As two of the potential majors listed tend to be less frequently offered than in years gone by, I did a search of College Navigator for colleges that offered a major in both anthropology and linguistics. That significantly narrows down the field. There were only 45 schools with less than 10,000 students that offered both majors, and many of the schools did not offer merit aid or did not offer sufficient merit aid to get to a $50k price point. Thus, I expanded my search up to 20k students, with the thought that an honors program could help make a campus feel smaller.
Below are some of the schools that seemed to be most promising based on the criteria provided, though with some of them, there was definitely some latitude taken, as nothing was an exactly perfect match. They are sorted by my guesses as to what your Dâs chances of admission might be.
Extremely Likely (80-100+%)
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Lawrence (WI): About 1400 undergrads
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Miami U. (OH): About 16k undergrads
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SUNY Oswego (NY): About 5700 undergrads
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U. of Delaware: About 20k undergrads
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U. of Montana: About 7600 undergrads
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U. of New Hampshire: About 11k undergrads
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U. of New Mexico: About 17k undergrads in Albuquerque
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U. of Vermont: About 12k undergrads
Likely (60-79%)
- Syracuse (NY): About 16k undergrads. Only likely if your D shows demonstrated interest.
Toss-Up (40-59%)
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Binghamton (NY): About 14k undergrads
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Brandeis (MA): About 3700 undergrads in a suburb of Boston
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Bryn Mawr (PA ): About 1300 undergrads at this womenâs college in the Quaker consortium with Haverford and Swarthmore. In a Philadelphia suburb.â
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U. of Rochester (NY): About 6800 undergrads
Lower Probability (20-39%)
- William & Mary (VA): About 7k undergrads
Low Probability (less than 20%)
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Emory (GA): About 7400 undergrads at this Georgia school. Students can also take classes at other Atlanta-area schools like Agnes Scott, Georgia Tech, and Spelman. Big Merit⢠is available, and your D might be competitive for it, but it would be a Hail Mary type of application to get accepted and the price within budget.
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Tulane (LA): About 8100 undergrads at this New Orleans school. Will need to show significant demonstrated interest if an acceptance is desired. But if sheâs accepted, I think she would be competitive for big merit.
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Tulane RD is significantly harder than EA for some reason (moreso than other schools), so if applying to Tulane, make sure to apply EA
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The Justice Brandeis Scholarship at Brandeis would get pretty darn close to $50K for a full pay student. Itâs $35K right now, and I believe it increases if tuition does.
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Case Western, Brandeis, St Olaf, Whitman, the womenâs colleges (Bryn Mawr in particular) would all be good colleges for students who love learning and need merit aid. All would require demonstrated interest, which she can accomplish by filling out âjoin our mailing listâ details then regularly checking the email she gave them, opening messages, and clicking on links of interest (all of that is tracked); registering for an official visit if itâs within driving distance; etc.
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And if REALLY want into Tulane - and financially feasible - Apply ED since they fill about 60% of their incoming class through that channel. (Thereâs more to be said about Tulane application process if that becomes a consideration for you, happy to go into it).
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I wouldnât be too worried as to rule them out for RD. They still accepted another 3400 applicants after that ED acceptance rate. Their yield in RD wasnât great.
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With these stats, anything is possible. Looks like you are being realistic and considering many tiers, which is great. My suggestion would be to ED or REA to where she really wants to go (regardless of tier) and simultaneously EA to a couple of public schools (allowed under ED/REA). If the initial news is negative, she will at least have some acceptances for morale. And she still has decent chances under regular admission to pretty much anywhere.
I agree with all your points. A young man we know in our circle went there and got a good education (and his family really wanted prestige), but very little fun. Many many students were in the library until closing on Fridays and Saturdays. He got his job in IB in NY. When asked if he likes it or what he does exactly. The response was no, I donât like it and no I donât really know what I do.
I also know someone who teaches at U of C. He always said his students are very stressed out students even when they donât need to be.
Our 2 Sâs also declined Northwestern because it has a similar vibe. They believed the intense student body will suck any joy out of everything. Their peers from HS were similar and they did not want to repeat that kind of environment. An example one son gave was some HS peers fret out loud how tired they are because they studied until 4 am for an exam and only got 98. S slept at 11 pm, but was completely ok with a 92.
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To me this sounds similar to my experience at MIT. I am under the impression that Caltech is similar.
You have to want to do it. The desire to work that hard for a full 4 years needs to come from inside the student. Some students want to do it. Some students donât. Some students love it, some hate it, and some love it part of the time and hate it part of the time, or even at the same time.
This is a good fit for some very strong students who want to work very hard and learn a lot. This is not a good fit for all very strong students.
To me Stanford (graduate school) was also intense, but I loved it. I am not sure how much of this was because I was older, or because all my classes were in fields closely related to my major that I wanted to take, or because a masterâs takes less time so I did not have time to burn out, or if Stanford is just a tiny, tiny bit less intense.
And I do not know how a student can judge ahead of time how much intensity they want to take on.
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This is a very good question, and I think the kids who are basically trying to get into the most selective college that will take them do not always fully understand the nature of this risk. They find it inconceivable that anyone would not want to go to MIT or Chicago or Caltech or whatever if they could get admitted, but plenty of kids will go to such colleges, not be so happy, and end up in careers they could have had going to a college they would actually have enjoyed a lot more.
Of course I am not saying literally no kids should go to such colleges. But I think every kid should be honest with themselves about whether that is actually what they really want in a college experience, for themselves, independent of what their peers, parents, or others will think.
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Sorry to tell you that there are stressed out students everywhere- community college, regional state Uâs, small âlaid backâ LACâs, and the colleges with the allegedly âparty heartyâ cultures.
Your post is a little strange IMHO. A kid gets a job in IB (an insanely competitive field) in which he has no interest after spending four years at a college where other than stress and hard work he found no joy?
Seems like thereâs a bigger problem here and itâs not named U Chicago.
Culture is important. Sometimes a school is a fit and sometimes itâs not. I know at least a dozen recent Chicago grads who loved their experiences there. It is very popular in my neck of the woods (not midwest) for a certain type of kid. And their majors have ranged from history to math to comparative literature to econ to philosophy⌠so all sorts of disciplines.
âAnd I do not know how a student can judge ahead of time how much intensity they want to take on.â
Mine did. We raised them from an early age to ârun my own raceâ. And thatâs what happened. Everyone (except the kidâs teachers) told us we were crazy to allow our kid to apply to MIT. âRat Raceâ. Burnout. Suicidal and depressed.
Kid didnât experience it that way. Interesting classes taught by fabulous faculty, some terrific ECâs, great research experience, lifelong friends. Wonderful summer fellowship arranged by a professor in a cool city doing interesting work.
Not for everyone. But tons of fun and great experiences for a kid who wants it.
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That would have been me! Back in the day, when I was a student at Oberlin, the library was open late on weekends and my friends and I used to hang out there and study⌠because we enjoyed doing that. I transferred to Stanford midway through college, and was horrified to find out the library closed early on weekends. Very different culture there.
My sonâs best friend from high school is at U Chicago and he absolutely loves it there. Picked it as his ED and never looked back. It is definitely a fit school, but can be great for the student for whom itâs a fit.
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My own very bright but unhooked kid will be applying to UChicago through SSEN after spending 3 weeks on campus. He loved everything about it. Loved the class, loved the campus, loved hanging out with the people he met from all over the world. Had a ton of fun on campus and exploring the city. He thought the class was fascinating and challenging enough but certainly did not find it too intense and still got an A. Many of the kids in his program felt the same. There were also quite a few who found the classes too difficult, did not enjoy the experience, and ruled out applying. It really is a fit school, but Iâm pretty confident itâs the right fit for him.
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I short, you are seeking a Tier 2 school with Tier 1 students that will give your daughter a merit scholarship. Additionally, she will thrive in an environment composed of smarter, highly motivated students. She wants a small to medium sized university.
Not sure that your goals are realistic in todayâs educational market when ruling out state flagship honors colleges due to the size of the student body.
Contrary to what one poster wrote above, there are many schools at which your daughter will not be challenged academically.
The impression that I get from your posts is that your daughter is a highly motivated, hard-working, smart, but not deeply intellectual student. Please correct me if my impression is incorrect. This is important with respect to targeting schools for your daughter.
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Your summary makes me think of this fairly recent post by @LionsTigersAndBears which notes that William & Mary is rated 5 pens by Fiske (the highest academic rating), while having a significantly higher acceptance rate than all the others in that category. Plus, it offers merit scholarships.
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I asked her if she likes your description. She says-âI work hard when Iâm motivated, when I work hard I become smart, when I become smart Iâm motivated.â
So she needs a spark-great teacher, great classmates, great book. Then their obvious passion legitimizes her sleeping passion. She needs some sort of push or else she does her bare minimum-but her bare minimum is pretty high already because she has very high standards for herself.
As for not deeply intellectual-talking Proust or seeing the opera is not for her. She likes to read and write, though. She appreciates sentences and ideas on aesthetic levels. She does not like small talk or sports talk or clothes talk-but with her friends she talks about boys, teachers, politics, life. Adult friends say she is serious and that the level of conversation is high. I would want to know your definition of intellectual more specifically.
Iâll have her look through the suggestions over the weekend. Iâll update then-for now your summary about what we think we want is spot on.
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