<p>I put up a link. But, there is scholarly research on this, too. You can find it.</p>
<p>I read the first few pages of the article poetgrl and skimmed the rest. It did not seem to have anything to do with feminism. It was about women who want to have sex but do not want a committed relationship. </p>
<p>Okay, maybe women may not have been able to do this openly years ago without wearing a scarlet letter, and feminism helped this. But men couldn’t readily do this either. My father, when he was in college, would not have dreamed of hooking up every night or ever. But my H probably could. He attended undergraduate college in the 70’s. I also saw it going on when I was an undergraduate in the 70’s with both sexes.</p>
<p>The only link I can see is that birth control has helped make the hook up culture possible. But it obviously has also had a lot of other great benefits – can’t imagine my life or my d’s life without the ability to plan when to have children and how many to have. Ugh.</p>
<p>I don’t think is “mainstream” feminism in the least. And it certainly doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the actual definition of feminism as discussed earlier. To me it seems like a far reach by some who don’t like the term feminist (and I don’t mean just on this thread, I expect certain news media outlets and websites have a hand in it) to somehow try to attach the hook up culture with the idea of equal rights for women. Not buying it here… it is a red herring even if there maybe be someone writing blogs or articles saying otherwise.</p>
<p>When I read this paragragh of the article, I keep wondering whether they do anything not right for themselves. SAHM will likely be a minority of this generation.</p>
<p>“These women said they saw building their résumés, not finding boyfriends (never mind husbands), as their main job at Penn. They envisioned their 20s as a period of unencumbered striving, when they might work at a bank in Hong Kong one year, then go to business school, then move to a corporate job in New York. The idea of lugging a relationship through all those transitions was hard for many to imagine.”</p>
<p>Well, you envision many things differently when you are young. When I was 23, I really wanted to get my tubes tied because I didn’t want to ever get married, and I certainly would NEVER want kids. Then married at 25, kids at 28, still married and I couldn’t envision my life without any of them. After awhile, people grow up.</p>
<p>While I certainly believe very differently about some issues than I did in my youth, some women may not actually “grow up” and think differently about their careers, get married and have kids. </p>
<p>At the college where I teach, the president and provost (both of whom have PhDs and are beyond child bearing years) do not have children. At least 5 male colleagues in my department do not have biological children. Some are married, some not, one has step-children.</p>
<p>My point is, a woman may be totally focused on her career and it may not change. It may not include children or marriage. I think feminism has resulted, to an extent, in allowing women that option without being ostracized or being called an old maid.</p>
<p>There will always be rude people but it doesn’t have a lot to do with political views.
( in response to breeze comment)</p>
<p>I was thinking of this discussion as I watched an episode of Project Runway. Wow…really…the ‘girls’ need to look fresh, young, modern, edgy…Kini was being raked over the coals for having made fashion which was ‘matronly’. (yes, I watch this on Demand and usually out of order). If anything were to make me stand up and say it insults my feminist aligned values it would be this type of show and the expectations it puts on women (oh, excuse me …girls).</p>
<p>What peeves me beyond all of the above insults, is that the men sit in their chairs, comfy in their jeans and turtle necks ( Hey…M Kors…are you trying to channel Jobs?) while the women - esp. Heidi - are clinging to their seats in clothing that won’t let them breath, shoes that won’t let them walk, and faces painted so that anything ‘natural’ is appropriately hidden (anyone else catch the fact the Tim Gunn was sporting a zit on several episodes…can you IMAGINE Heidi or any of the dolled and trussed up females doing the same)? Why do the WOMEN in power put up with this, why do it to themselves? Hey Heidi, show up in comfy jeans, a pair of flats and your face like nature intended.</p>
<p>So, here is a question…do the avowed feminists on this thread support this type of show/industry? Do you buy Vogue - you know that magazine where all the females pose with their lips parted in anticipation of …of what??? Do you force your feet into shoes that are on the level of medieval torture devices? If you found yourself in an all female environment would you consider buying Jimmy Choo’s or Spanx, tummy paneled jeans? Would you be running about 5 lbs of lipstick through your system during your lifetime? How about that wonderful eyebrow threading or chin hair lasering? Would you do any of it??? If not…why do it now?</p>
<p>Even back in ‘the day’, I didn’t wear uncomfortable clothing or shoes on dates, I own about 4 items of makeup and frankly, when I DO put myself into fashion straight jackets it is to impress the other women in the room, not the men. So, maybe we are our own worst enemy.</p>
<p>Just curious…</p>
<p>I don’t watch Project Runway.
I have bought Vogue & WWD.
Not lately.
D as well.
I don’t think being interested or not interested in fashion is connected with the opinion that women are people and deserve the same rights as men.
I don’t wear heels cause they don’t fit my feet and aren’t good for my knees.</p>
<p>I generally dress for myself and always have, so who I work with doesn’t affect if I want to wear heels or control underwear.
I do try and look presentable, I feel better.</p>
<p>Dietz199, As somebody else said, </p>
<p>To each his own …</p>
<p>I am not going to watch Project Runway …</p>
<p>When I read the article I thought these young women don’t know what they are doing. They are trying to figure things out. </p>
<p>These young women are in their 20’s. They are bringing their 20 something selves to their decisions. Some day they will bring their 50 year old selves to their decisions. I think they will make different decisions. </p>
<p>I want my kids who are in their 20’s to live like they are in their 20’s. I don’t want them to make decisions like they are in their 50’s. </p>
<p>I told my son I don’t care what you do as long as you make healthy decisions. That includes respecting others by the way.</p>
<p>When I was young, One of the best things my dad ever told me, one of the best things was, “You are not me”.</p>
<p>My daughter’s generation thinks a little differently than mine. A little. That’s good.</p>
<p>I wear makeup, high heels, tight pants, botox, eye make over :). I follow latest fashion and I feel good when I look good. I have walked by a mirror, looked at myself and thought, “Damn, I look good today.” Some people have checked out my shoe closet and admired them. Do all of those things make me feel less than a man? No, just make me a better version.</p>
<p>dietz clearly missed my rant about clothing expectations 
</p>
<p>Avowed feminist here. I do not watch reality TV. I’ve never bought a fashion magazine and I don’t skim through them. I wear tennis shoes and don’t own any heels. </p>
<p>My sister, also an avowed feminist, prefers sky-high heels, super tight clothes that show off all of her well-endowed assets, bleach blonde hair and colorful make-up. She is a bartender and darn well knows how to use her body to get better tips. I dare any poor soul to say the wrong thing or touch her though. She’s nearly a foot shorter than me and her strength makes me wimper a bit. </p>
<p>I support the decision that women make to participate in those things. I support women who make the decision not to participate in those things. I wish young women wouldn’t watch those things because I think it is terrible for one’s self-esteem. But the feminist in me fully supports most any decision that men or women make- including to watch TV shows or buy magazines that I don’t particularly like. </p>
<p>Oldfort, lol.</p>
<p>I bet you do look good. </p>
<p><a href=“http://us.macmillan.com/freshlipstick/lindamscott”>http://us.macmillan.com/freshlipstick/lindamscott</a></p>
<p><a href=“(PDF) Review Essay of Linda M. Scott's Fresh Lipstick: Redressing Fashion and Feminism | Marc A. Ouellette - Academia.edu”>(PDF) Review Essay of Linda M. Scott's Fresh Lipstick: Redressing Fashion and Feminism | Marc A. Ouellette - Academia.edu;
<p>I try not to wear tight pants with high heels now.</p>
<p>"While I certainly believe very differently about some issues than I did in my youth, some women may not actually “grow up” and think differently about their careers, get married and have kids.</p>
<p>At the college where I teach, the president and provost (both of whom have PhDs and are beyond child bearing years) do not have children. At least 5 male colleagues in my department do not have biological children. Some are married, some not, one has step-children."</p>
<p>I hope you don’t think I was implying that someone who decides not to have kids is immature. I know a number of people who didn’t have children also. A better way for me to say it would have been that as people get older, they find that it is more important than they thought, to have someone to share their lives. Whether it is children or significant others, most people eventually decide that everything isn’t all about themselves, that other people are important too. Though I have some friends who have never gotten married or had a serious relationship, or children, their parents and siblings have become more important to them. I don’t know anyone whose entire life is all about their job anymore.</p>
<p>Do the avowed feminists on this thread support this type of show/industry? Have never seen Project Runway. Would probably turn it off if it came on out of boredom if nothing else.</p>
<p>Do you buy Vogue - you know that magazine where all the females pose with their lips parted in anticipation of …of what??? Have never purchased it, don’t look at places like hair salon. Honestly, it is dull to me…</p>
<p>Do you force your feet into shoes that are on the level of medieval torture devices? Nope, I am a “sensible shoes” person. My mom ruined her feet with heels, and I have no plans to do the same. Flats (and not ballet flats, they are not comfortable for me). I own a few pairs of heels (1 inch), but can’t actually remember the last time I wore them (maybe a wedding last October).</p>
<p>If you found yourself in an all female environment would you consider buying Jimmy Choo’s or Spanx, tummy paneled jeans? No, would not. Waste of money for the Jimmy Choos (and I wouldn’t know them if I saw them without a label). And no “tummy panel” jeans. I try to stay in reasonable shape – am not model skinny, but not a plus size, either. I am fine with how I look for the most part.</p>
<p>Would you be running about 5 lbs of lipstick through your system during your lifetime? No, but maybe chapstick… don’t like the feeling of chapped lips. But rarely use lipstick.</p>
<p>How about that wonderful eyebrow threading or chin hair lasering? Would you do any of it??? If not…why do it now? Nope, not planning on any of it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Many women will always get dressed up including wearing uncomfortable shoes etc. and many men don’t care what they wear. It has been this way and will continue to be this way.</p>
<p>@morrismm That NYT article was a response to this article.</p>
<p><a href=“Boys on the Side - The Atlantic”>Boys on the Side - The Atlantic;
<p>From the article:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is written by the woman who wrote “The End of Men.” Of course, she also states that rape has declined by 70% since 1993, which is a complete fabrication. But, make of it what you will.</p>