<p>Question was asked of him by Maria Klawe, who is both a Microsoft board member (so she was involved in the hiring decision for this guy) and the president of Harvey Mudd college. She was on the hot seat for the next few days trying to juggle answering questions about this issue in interviews. She had personally had issues asking for appropriate pay for her work in the past (including when she was offered the position of president of Mudd), but not wanting to fan the controversy due to her commitment to Microsoft. I think she wished it would all go away… (what I really think she wished is that he hadn’t said anything that idiotic…).</p>
<p>We use the feminist label (those of us who use it) precisely because women are not treated and paid equally. If there was no issue, there would be no need for the label.</p>
<p>Are there still people who equate feminism with earth mother/bra-burning/non armpit or leg shaving women? That would be unfortunate.</p>
<p>My son (college-aged) agrees 100% with the basic definition of feminism–equal rights and equal opportunities for all. He thinks that’s obvious and a no-brainer. But when asked about the word “feminism”, he thinks “radical man hater who perceives a man saying hello or holding a door open for a woman as an act of aggression and assault.” </p>
<p>I am not sure where he got this perception from, it was certainly not from me or his father or his grandparents. Most likely stuff he has read online, unfortunately.</p>
<p>I thought the old stereotypes of feminists were gone, but I guess not.</p>
<p>I am a feminist and also very “girly”. D is the same. </p>
<p>IMO, some with a very specific agenda have done a very good job of painting feminists in that light, bearpanther. They have taken extremists and presented them as the norm. It’s a very effective tactic, especially with the internet. It’s the same with things like being a vegetarian. I’ve had more than one person associate me with PETA-level extremism (an organization I despise) simply because I don’t eat meat. </p>
<p>I love men. I am a feminist partially because I love men. Feminism is not just for women, it’s for men, too. It is because of feminism that both my (male) partner and I are able to pursue the lives that we want to: me as a professional, career-driven “breadwinner” and he as a stay at home parent- or at least one where he is the more involved parent. If not for feminism, this would not be an option. He would be forced to be the breadwinner and I a SAHM. </p>
<p>I just asked 22yo ds about this. He is a feminist and says some of the current bad press for feminism comes from reddit and 4chan.</p>
<p>@bearpanther : Your DS may have gotten this idea from any of a number of required course in the Women’s Studies department. IMO, the types of professors and manner in which subject material is taught is a likely reason our ‘children’ have an aversion to the word.</p>
<p>This type of approach to Woman’s Studies was apparent in the 70’s and is still seen today. Just google the topic and see what pops up…or check out FIRE.org and look at some of the cases. I took a few community college courses in the late 90’s early 00’s. The anger and vitriol spewed by members of the department were epic. Browse Rate my Prof or similar institution specific sites…it’s eye opening. These are often the feminist models for our young’uns.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I did not say ALL profs in ALL departments at ALL institutions are like this. I did say SOME of the most vocal and outspoken fall into this category…often they are teaching the mandatory GE course.</p>
<p>Are there really colleges that have required courses in women’s studies? My kid is looking at one all-women’s college and they don’t even have such a requirement. </p>
<p>FWIW, I agree with your assessment about the politics of these departments being a source of our youngsters’ aversion to being labeled as feminists. I am absolutely a “feminist” but have nothing but eye-rolls for “women’s studies” as a concentration. It reminds me of the words “womyn” and “herstory” and other silly neologisms of my college days. </p>
<p>Don’t worry, we women’s studies people roll our eyes at those of you who roll your eyes 
</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure that the posters on this thread who do not wish to call themselves feminists are not getting their ideas about feminism from the louts and criminals of 4chan and reddit. I might not agree with zoosermom on everything, but I’m positive we’re in accord about the ethics of stealing nude pictures of young women and posting them for creeps to drool over.</p>
<p>My ds’s comments were about people of his generation, such as bearpanther’s ds.</p>
<p>Yeah… I think that 4chan and reddit reflect a certain view of feminism rather than originating it. The 4chan/reddit view of feminism was around before 4chan and reddit.</p>
<p>I didn’t say that’s where it started, just giving an idea for why some young kids think like they do.</p>
<p>Okay. So, this was bugging me a little bit and I called my daughter today. She has graduated college and is working. I told her what we were discussing and what I said about her thoughts. She said that her refusal to label herself a feminist was a reaction to a professor telling her she wasn’t a feminist. She is older and more savvy now. She thinks the professor was trying to challenge her into changing her mind, since almost everything she believes politically is in line with feminist thought and she didn’t agree with some of the identity issues, particularly the idea that girls get as much from hook up culture as boys. </p>
<p>She says since she did that paper, a lot of research came out to prove her right and that girls are not getting as much sexually out of hook up culture by fifty percent. And since then, there have been some academic feminists who have come out in favor of her position, though at the time, they had not. Now, she would be able to argue her point with cites instead of just knowledge.</p>
<p>She says if you take her off a college campus, she is a feminist and so are most of the girls she knows and a lot of the guys. She also says that her feelings about wanting doors opened and the rest are fine and she doesn’t want to be a feminist if she has to give that up and she won’t and doesn’t have to. But, she says, she will fight for the right of any guy who wants to wear her dress and her shoes and have the doors opened for them as well. She also pointed out that she was born ridiculously girly and she shouldn’t have to defend that any more than her great good friend who was born very girly but is a young man.</p>
<p>So, are you a feminist? </p>
<p>“depends on who you ask”</p>
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<p>This situation actually happened to my nephew, now a freshman at a LAC known for its politically active (heavily liberal) student body.</p>
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<p>This does not seem like a feminist concept to me at all. The feminist viewpoint would be that girls have as much RIGHT as boys to participate and enjoy hookup culture IF THEY CHOOSE TO. Without any snarky comments about their reputation or morals, etc. </p>
<p>But the debate about whether they ‘get as much out of it as boys’ seems unrelated to feminism, And get as much what? Pleasure? Downside risk? Fun bragging to their friends? STDs?</p>
<p>It has never occurred to me that the hook up culture and feminism were related. I think the hook up culture evolved more from the 60’s-70’s free love era.</p>
<p>Well, you should look into it. Because there are many in the feminist scholarship world who actually believe feminism depends on hook up culture. I’m not making this up. </p>
<p>D started college in 2009. there was a lot of interest around this issue, in research, at that point in time.</p>
<p>A lot has been written about it recently, as well. </p>
<p>Personally, if a young woman is getting sexual pleasure and whatever she wants out of this, I say, great. Good for you. Have at it. I don’t have a lot of judgement around this and never have and I didn’t raise my girls to have any judgement around it, though I did raise them to understand that sex is transactional, like it or not, particularly outside of a committed relationship. </p>
<p>Either way, it’s not my position that hook up culture is feminist. It is, however, the published position of some. </p>
<p><a href=“Sex on Campus: She Can Play That Game, Too - The New York Times”>Sex on Campus: She Can Play That Game, Too - The New York Times;
<p>Many? Admittedly, most of my study of college sexual health has been through public health and not feminist scholarship but I must say I’ve never come across that sentiment. </p>
<p>Can you give me a few names? I’d be interested in reading their work and finding out how on earth they justify that link. </p>