<p>I recall a corporate diversity workshop I attended where one of the older male participants declared he resented women taking jobs away from men who need them. </p>
<p>If u also find this thinking offensive, then u too are a feminist. </p>
<p>I find that thinking offensive. I would have called him on it. I am not a feminist.</p>
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Dress matters in how we are perceived. </p>
<p>I notice that when I go into a shop dressed in formal corporate business attire, the sales clerks are far more solicitous to me than if I walk in in Tshirt & jeans. You can extrapolate from there to the work place…</p>
<p>morris, I really can’t answer your question. </p>
<p>I have worked places where the dress code was very sexist though. I’ve told this story on here before so my apologies for those who have already heard it. When I worked for the state (in the backroom of a library that isn’t open to the public- it’s a mail order library), we had pretty loose dress codes. We still had to dress “nice” but they recognized the fact that we worked in occasionally pretty gross conditions handling returned digital and braille books. </p>
<p>During the last few months I worked there, our governor created a position above my boss’ boss that immediately enacted a new dress code. He was an elderly gentleman that had been brought out of retirement for this position. The dress code effectively made it against code for women to wear pants of any sort and made it mandatory for all supervisors to report dress code violations. </p>
<p>So, we had to wear skirts while our supervisors submitted protests about this ridiculous new policy. So I was shelving, going through often near-century old files, etc in a skirt. Men, of course, were able to wear pants and they were much better off. The policy was quickly, though not quickly enough, repealed- and I don’t really know the details of why (besides the obvious). </p>
<p>Absolutely, dress codes can be incredibly sexist. This is certainly not limited to the workplace- look at all the “slut” shaming dress codes that exist at schools. </p>
<p>Do I think that eliminating dress codes could help women in the workplace? Maybe, maybe not. My reasons for challenging them have nothing to do with gender- they have everything to do with the fact that I hate formal clothes 
</p>
<p>(Fwiw, I have certainly worked in places where I needed to dress formally. I have given many academic presentations, spoken before members of Congress, led trainings with state officials, etc that all required formal dress. I do it well and without external complaint. Just because you have to do something though, doesn’t mean you can’t gripe about it on a message board…) </p>
<p>Hm. I sure don’t like when people try to force a label or agenda on me. Ain’t nothing liberating about that.</p>
<p>Let people do the good work they do, often agreeing with you in good part, and quit harassing them for having a mind of their own.</p>
<p>Oh, and I’m not telling you whether I consider myself a feminist or not. I repeat, quit harassing people.</p>
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<p>My mom won the state championship in typing back in the mid-50s. She typed for law students when I was growing up, and I made money by proofreading for her. I took typing in high school and won a contest. I am SO happy I learned to type fast! It’s second nature to me.</p>
<p>Who’s harassing people? I must have missed something.</p>
<p>I love working from our home office. I can wear whatever the heck I want to!</p>
<p>I was a very good typist. When I was in college I used to type people’s papers, $1/page if I had a week notice, $3/page if it was a rush job. My skill paid for a lot of ECs.</p>
<p>I could dress almost whatever I want at my work. (I.e., dress almost like a typical college students would dress.) It has been the case during 99% of my work life. I actually noticed two employees did not wear shoes (bare their foot) to work in the past few years. Other times, I noticed somebody wore the tight “biker’s suit” to work (although they changed it at work.) He actually hung his sweaty clothes in his cubical and it smelled bad. But all of us tolerated it.</p>
<p>At another time, an enployee at another company rode his bicycle to our company for some joint work. His company was almost across the city. It took him 2+ hours to get here (it was like 9:30 pm) before he arrived. We had to wait for his arrival patiently. I think we finished the work at 1:00 am. We were told that the employee would fly out of the country (to China - FoxConn) next morning at 11:00 am. The pace of wirk was just crazy in those years.</p>
<p>I was just talking to Fang Jr, who convinced me that Zoosermom and Deborah T. are right that I shouldn’t say someone is a feminist, if they insist they are not a feminist but they fit my definition of feminist.</p>
<p>I said, “If someone says they’re not a hero, I will nevertheless call them a hero if they saved three kids from an icy river. If someone says they’re not a racist, I will nevertheless say they’re a racist if they, let’s say, are members of the Klan and just fired someone because she married a black guy. If someone says they’re not a vegetarian, I’ll nevertheless say they’re a vegetarian if they never eat meat even when they could.”</p>
<p>Fang Jr said that’s all correct, but the word feminist is different because enough people have the “I’m not a feminist” definition of feminism that we have to accept it as their definition.</p>
<p>OK, I’ll buy that.</p>
<p>I think this is an interesting article on this exact issue.</p>
<p><a href=“Who Is a Feminist Now? - The New York Times”>http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/22/fashion/who-is-a-feminist-now.html</a></p>
<p>for some reason I can’t quote from the article, but note that Yahoo’s Mayer, brought up earlier in this thread says she does not consider herself a feminist. It’s a very interesting read @intparent. </p>
<p>It does a pretty good job of going into all the different ways young women see this particular label.</p>
<p>I was interested, myself, in the fact that “are you a feminist?” might not really be a very good question anymore. A better question might be “How has feminism shaped your life?” </p>
<p>Cardinal Fang, I respect and very much appreciate the fact that you are thinking about how others may perceive themselves. I think that if someone did something heroic and didn’t want to be called a hero, someone else could find her actions heroic and consider her to be their hero. If someone’s actions move you in some way, you can tell yourself that you think that person exemplifies XYZ for you and have that be true. What you can’t do is browbeat that person into submitting to your classification, especially if you don’t know why they hold their views. And does it really matter? If we agree that women should always have the same rights as men, and we agree on other specifics, does it matter how someone else defines herself? I wonder if the disagreements matter enough to cause name calling and other not nice behavior, or if we could celebrate the areas where we agree, especially if I believe something and it takes nothing away from anything else. And I don’t mean you or any specific poster, I’m just musing as a general matter. </p>
<p>Is this person’s life related to this thread?
I think her line of “work” (at the young age of 17) has been about improving the education opportunity of young females (esp., children) in many countries:</p>
<p><a href=“Nobel Laureate Malala Donates $50,000 to Gaza”>http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/10/30/nobel-laureate-malala-donates-50000-gaza</a></p>
<p>Another link:</p>
<p>But, in her native Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, her achievement was not appreciated. In fact, many uttered words to discourage and denounce her. The PTI and its ally Jamaat-e-Islami merely issued congratulatory statements. The JI chief Sirajul Haq in a laudable stance warmly felicitated her by semingly departing from the ingrained party policy of opposing Malala. One could understand how difficult it would have been for him to do so as other members of his party, notably the provincial chief Prof Ibrahim Khan, spoke against her.</p>
<p>The provincial government could have taken a lead in presenting a resolution in the assembly in favour of Malala, but it instead blocked the one submitted by Jaffar Shah of ANP. This showed its indifference to this teenager hailed the world over by towering personalities.</p>
<p>In our conflict stricken country, getting a Nobel Prize for peace is something that can be called historic. Malala’s Nobel Peace Prize is a matter of pride and hope. But, as the country stands divided in its political narrative even this moment of joy has been marred by contrasting interpretation of the event and biased commentaries.</p>
<p>The conspiracy theorists even at the sad and tragic event of Malala shooting dubbed it as a well-planned and properly executed plan of the West, notwithstanding the mortal risk that this young girl suffered. The conspiracy theorists, by and large the rightist elements in Pakistani politics, criticised Malala and tried to turn this tragic event into a matter of suspicion.</p>
<p>A small section of the society is now busy tarnishing Malala’s image and that of her family by alleging that she conspired against the country and was advancing the Western agenda. They are a minority because the majority of Pakistanis have hailed Malala’s achievement. The forces opposed to progress and enlightenment had maligned and disowned Dr Abdul Salam when he became the first Pakistani to win the Nobel Prize (for physics) by citing his religious beliefs. And now they are refusing to celebrate Malala’s courage and achievements due to her gender and political views."</p>
<p>Now this lady is awesome. In my opinion, she is the epitome of a feminist.</p>
<p>"Maj. Mariam Al Mansouri may be ISIS’ worst nightmare.</p>
<p>The first female fighter pilot in the United Arab Emirates, she led a strike mission this week against the terror group, that country’s ambassador to the United States said Thursday.</p>
<p>“She is (a) fully qualified, highly trained, combat ready pilot, and she led the mission,” Yousef Al Otaiba told MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”</p>
<p>The UAE has joined the United States and a handful of other Arab nations in conducting airstrikes against ISIS in Syria.</p>
<p>This summer, the group declared the establishment of a “caliphate,” an Islamic state stretching across the territory it has conquered. It maintains strict rules for women, who are lashed for infractions such as not being fully covered.</p>
<p>Al Otaiba said the campaign against ISIS basically boils down to the question of what type of society one wants.</p>
<p>“It’s important for us – moderate Arabs, moderate Muslims – to step up and say this is a threat against us. This is more of a threat against us than it is against you. This is not just a threat to our countries. This is a threat to our way of life,” the ambassador told MSNBC.</p>
<p>CNN spoke to Al Mansouri earlier this year about her work. She had wanted to be a fighter pilot since she finished high school, but had to wait until women were allowed.</p>
<p>“At that time, the doors were not open for females to be pilots. So I had to wait almost 10 years for the decision to be taken,” Al Mansouri said.</p>
<p>She stressed there’s no difference between men and women when it comes to defending their country.</p>
<p>“We are in a hot area so that we have to prepare every citizen,” Al Mansouri said. “Of course, everybody is responsible of defending their country – male or female. When the time will come, everybody will jump in.”</p>
<p>I think one reason some young women are rejecting the feminist label is because they are part of a group that has moved beyond the gender binary. If they don’t see behaviors and personal presentation as sex linked, but as just an individual preference, the world looks a whole lot different. If they reject the idea that acquiring patriarchal power is a worthwhile goal, the world looks really different. I think they stood on our shoulders and took off for outer space. I’m pretty impressed, as much as I can follow the arguments. It is certainly a challenge for me. I’m working on understanding.</p>
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<p><a href=“Gender binary | Geek Feminism Wiki | Fandom”>http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Gender_binary</a></p>
<p>adding: I could see poetgrl’s daughter as part of this group based on the descriptions. It is really complicated to embrace girly stereotypes as a radical act, when that is the traditional oppressive default. The difference, it seems to me, is it is acceptable to embrace that stereotype regardless of gender. And they will fight for your right to do so against negative societal response. If a male can wear high heels, and wait for doors to be opened, so can a female.</p>
<p>I’m still really trying to figure this out, but think I really support it…</p>
<p>Why do we have to use labels? Why can’t men and women simply be treated and paid equally?</p>
<p>Yes Jym, wouldn’t that be great? And not just men and women, but the individuals who are moving from one to the other and people who do t quite fit either gender. If one is qualified for a job, being paid fairly and without regard to gender or sexuality should be the only acceptable outcome.</p>
<p>Has the comment that Microsoft CEO said about women trusting the system and not asking for a raise been discussed here yet? <a href=“The Perfect Case Against Microsoft CEO’s Remark That Women Shouldn’t A”>The Perfect Case Against Microsoft CEO’s Remark That Women Shouldn’t A;
<p><a href=“Microsoft CEO Apologizes for Saying Women Should 'Have Faith,' Not Ask for Raises - ABC News”>http://abcnews.go.com/Business/microsoft-ceo-apologizes-women-faith-raises/story?id=26091099</a></p>
<p>Good lord. Forgot about this one.</p>
<p>Of course, it’s easy to “trust the system” when you are born with the “right” body parts. Ridiculous.</p>