<p>I can’t believe, that with physical evidence (I sure hope they got a rape kit with DNA), and texts as evidence, that he wouldn’t even be charged. I would not blame anyone for whatever choice they made, like you, I’m just saying what I would do, and what I would encourage as a parent. Hopefully neither of us will ever have to face this.</p>
<p>BD, it is EXTREMELY difficult to get a conviction for a male on male rape. We’re still stuck in the mindset in this country that men can’t get raped- even by other men. Plus it is extremely emasculating to admit that you’ve been raped as a man. </p>
<p>I went forward. I told my story. They collected evidence. He walked free. If I had known he would have walked free, I would’ve never gone forward. I can’t tell you how many times I had to retell my story. How many times <em>I</em> was questioned as though I was the suspect- and I wasn’t even in high school yet! </p>
<p>MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Aside from the fact that this discussion is very close to going off the rails, I want to remind posters to be courteous in their responses, as stated in ToS. </p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sandy-garossino/jian-ghomeshi-women-report-sex-assault_b_6059124.html]Here[/url”>http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sandy-garossino/jian-ghomeshi-women-report-sex-assault_b_6059124.html]Here[/url</a>] is an article by a Canadian prosecutor about what happens when a woman accuses a man of rape (aka “sexual assault”, because there is no crime named “rape” in Canada) and the case goes to trial: horrible cross-examination. I wouldn’t want to have to sit on the stand and answer those questions.</p>
<p>Ouch. </p>
<p>Inequality is a heavy topic because it is so pervasive in our culture.
I was aware of it in 1962, when I was 5 and in kindergarten.
Girls had very narrow life choices laid out for them, even as five yr olds.
I was told by my teacher ( when asked the " what do you want to be when you grow up") that I could be a nurse, or a secretary or a teacher. None of those things interested me, but boys had everything else as choices.</p>
<p>It takes a long time apparently to change the boundaries.</p>
<p>Part of where things get confused (back to the central discussion of feminism) is in the idea of gender teamwork. Women’s rights is not a zero sum game. What’s good for the goose is usually good for the gander. For example in medicine . . . the going model is an 80ish hour work week where men are doctors and they have a wife who bears and raises a family and takes care of everything on the home front. It’s a model that is tough on everyone but works if arranged just like that. As more women have gone into medicine they’re finding that model doesn’t work if you want/need to balance a life with kids. It’s just unsustainable. There is more push to revisit that model which will benefit everyone - male and female doctors and their families. Equal pay for women means that husbands and sons will have more household income and retired women will have more equitable social security payments in retirement. Better family leave means that men can also take needed time of to care for a parent, child or partner. Much of our old system was based on the assumption that women worked only until they married and after than it was just for pin money.</p>
<p>So much of choice and equity in the economic sphere ties back to the availability of reproductive planning. The possibility that a woman might get pregnant at any moment and drop out of the job market was used as an excuse not to give women promotions and equitable pay and benefits. At the same time contraception wasn’t readily available. Of course biology is a thing and women’s lives are always influenced by decisions about reproduction (yes or no and when) but those decisions should be internally made not imposed. None of these shifts mean that women and their partners still can’t choose to have a “traditional” division of labor and/or balance of power in their relationships.</p>
<p>As for the other stuff . . . I don’t think that waxing one’s peri-menopausal upper lip or wearing cute but uncomfortable shoes is sign of selling out to “The Man”.</p>
<p>Oh, rom. That’s awful. I’m so sorry.</p>
<p>“So, here is a question…do the avowed feminists on this thread support this type of show/industry? Do you buy Vogue - you know that magazine where all the females pose with their lips parted in anticipation of …of what??? Do you force your feet into shoes that are on the level of medieval torture devices? If you found yourself in an all female environment would you consider buying Jimmy Choo’s or Spanx, tummy paneled jeans? Would you be running about 5 lbs of lipstick through your system during your lifetime? How about that wonderful eyebrow threading or chin hair lasering?”</p>
<p>Yes, I read Vogue and Allure and Marie Claire and all of those other magazines – not like a religion, but sure, why not? I’m capable of reading those AND reading “serious” magazines / newspapers too.</p>
<p>And I am capable of wearing reasonably stylish, fashionable clothing and shoes without having it be painful – because the choices are not “dumpy and comfortable” versus “stylish and painful.” It’s people who don’t know how to dress at all who immediately take any mention of style" into “oh, so you’re saying I have to paint my face like a hooker and teeter on stilettos whenever I run to the grocery store.” I think they think fashion = Peg Bundy. </p>
<p>I don’t own any Jimmy Choos, but I have no moral objection to them. And yes, I’ll wear Spanx if I’m wearing an outfit and don’t want my tummy bulge to show and all the core work I’ve doing hasn’t resulted in complete flatness. What’s wrong with that? Is that bad to want to look nice? </p>
<p>Sure, I get my eyebrows waxed or threaded. No chin hair thankfully 
I also get my hair highlighted to cover the emerging gray, and I get my nails done in a pale, professional looking color because <em>I</em> like it. Feminism doesn’t mean I have to look like I don’t care about myself. </p>
<p>If only I could get my chin hair implanted into my eyebrows.</p>
<p>What do fashion and makeup have to do with feminism? intparent, are you making the assumption that women who care about how they look are subjugating themselves to men? Then how do you explain four-year-old girls who want to dress up like princesses, or adult women who are lesbian and thus not concerned in the least with being attractive to men?</p>
<p>I happen to LIKE shopping and wearing nice clothes and appreciate how much better I feel when my roots are covered up and I have a little makeup on to brighten my otherwise blah appearance. My interest in these things is more an expression of creativity than anything else. I certainly don’t feel more righteous when I go out on Saturdays in shlumpy sweats with my hair unwashed and no makeup on, although I do that often. </p>
<p>Feminism, IMO, is about choice. If you choose to do your makeup every day because it makes you feel good, do it. If you choose not to shave your legs, don’t do it. If you choose to have a traditionally “female” career, do it. Everyone should have the right to choose what they want to do with their body, their career, their life. It’s that simple.</p>
<p>And yes, I do consider myself a feminist.</p>
<p>I fear, once again, that I have come across a thread on the verge of collapse, or perhaps all the important points have already been made. Having the right to vote, own property, serve on a jury, be a professional, attend a college or grad school, get a job that was once reserved for men etc. were the things that concerned me. I think there is a greater focus today on rights of same sex partners, transgender persons, and things I did not really consider back in the day. </p>
<p>On the level of societal norms, I do think that even though it is “allowed” for women to ask men out, be sexually liberated, and things of that nature, that heterosexual men do not wholly accept that these should even be norms. I understand that some women do not want these as norms either. However, until all things associated with women pursuing men if they so choose, and allowing women sexual freedom with terms such as slut being thought of in that connection, we have not come far enough, IMHO. Men often think that they can have many sex partners and it is ok or even admirable, but that women who do so are promiscuous in a bad way. In the end, as between heterosexuals, for the most part, men get to ask, and women can say yes or no, but it is not very accepted for women to pursue men. Perhaps many women say why should they? I just suggest that if there is to be real equality, either sex as pursuer or pursued should be acceptable. </p>
<p>As to all this holding door stuff, I hold doors for those who need help: elderly, wheelchairs, strollers, canes, crutches, etc. and for those following me. To me it is courtesy. To wait at a door for someone to open it for me would never be my style. In my life I have pushed doors in, banged on those closed shut, and broken some down. Until I am too old and infirm to open them myself, I fully expect to continue to open doors.</p>
<p>I hold the door open for whoever is coming to the door. To me that is a simply courtesy we can easily extend to each other.</p>
<p>When I’m out by myself, I hold the door for whomever is behind me: man, woman, child. When I’m out with husband or sons (and a few close, long term male friends) I wait for them to open the door. My husband goes around and opens the passenger car door for me every time we go out together. I say “thank you” every time. He pulls out my chair at restaurants.</p>
<p>I have subscriptions to Vogue and W. I do not wear makeup. I do not wear scent. I do not wear spanx. I do not wear stilettos. I do not cover the gray. I get manicures and pedicures regularly. I do not wear color on my finger nails. I wear jewelry every day. I do not wear diamonds. I have excellent lingerie. Clothes are my hobby.</p>
<p>feminist</p>
<p>Feminism isn’t about being dikey. It’s about having the same opportunities as men to fully participate in the economy and in society. </p>
<p>Feminism isn’t about being force to be dykey, but it’s definitely about being able to be dykey if that’s your wish, or girly if that’s your wish.</p>
<p>As a male, I support full equality of opportunity and options for men and women. To me, this is “obvious” and anyone that doesn’t agree with this I don’t really want to associate with.</p>
<p>That said, I do not consider myself a feminist, because I associate the feminist movement in 2014 with efforts to hinder male children in K-12 education; efforts to institute programs that do things like increase the number of women in engineering, while not doing anything to increase the number of male teachers; efforts to eliminate constitutional rights of the accused; the use of inaccurate statistics (1 in 4 and 77%); and things like the Lena Dunham situation, where she, according to her own words, sexually assaulted her younger sister and is blaming a vast conspiracy when someone calls her on it. Regarding the last issue, I agree with this write up: <a href=“http://feminspire.com/white-feminists-■■■■■■■-ignoring-lena-dunhams-abuse/”>http://feminspire.com/white-feminists-■■■■■■■-ignoring-lena-dunhams-abuse/</a> (it has a bad word, so the link might not work…)</p>
<p>The feminism seems to get the most press is an upper-middle class white movement that is more concerned with things like what kind of sex you can have and not get judged, vs. the billions of women that are facing legitimate issues around the world, including genital mutilation and sex slavery, among countless other things. </p>
<p>soccerguy–that’s not feminism. At least, not all of it.</p>
<p>And in fact, feminism is working toward fixes for some of those issues as well. There are efforts to increase the number of women in STEM fields because women (and girls) are systemically told they can’t do that. Men might be mocked for going into teaching or nursing (by the way, this is an effect of the patriarchy; if the sexes were viewed as equal it wouldn’t be an issue) but they’re never told they CAN’T do that. Statistics can be spun by either side and depend on a large variety of factors. </p>
<p>Here’s the truth: if you believe in the political, social, and economical equality of all people, you’re a feminist. Boom. That’s it. Welcome to the movement. I’d encourage you to do your own research on organizations like V-Day, Everyday Feminism, and other groups that are working towards helping the women you’re talking about, rather than just paying attention to what’s in our media (because we all know how reliable that is.)</p>
<p>Actually, I am very concerned about female genital mutilation and subjugation of women in other countries. This is one horrible example of a practice in cultures where women have few to no rights. However, to say that this issue is not about what kind of sex you can have or with whom is not correct. In the cultures that practice this, women may have sex only with their husband, if they have one. Anything else is a death sentence. A father can legally murder his own daughter for having sex with someone she chooses. The husband can do whatever he pleases with whomever he pleases. This is different in degree from what I said above, but not really in kind. Just because we have more rights in the US doesn’t mean that we are done with giving rights! These issues are not mutually exclusive. Just because others have less doesn’t mean we have to be satisfied with what we have. In fact, the reason many other cultures have an improvement in their rights is because they see ours and want more.</p>
<p>i just saw a tv show celebrating naturalized americans. Of course who they picked to speak is not necessarily representative, but one Korean born woman made a point of saying that she would never have been able to accomplish what she has done here in her home country. </p>
<p>I really don’t think anyone mainstream is trying to hinder male children. Perhaps there is more competition because half of the population was precluded from participation for generations, and people have not adjusted their attitudes. This also goes for the minorities who were excluded for generations. Now they are in the pool and people complain that they are “taking” spots that they shouldn’t - which I do not subscribe to. Women have systematically been discriminated against in scientific fields, being denied credit for discoveries and places in education. The results of standardized testing, which can be biased, is used to say that women or minorities are or may be less able innately because they are less represented in the top percentiles (See Larry Summers). Even if this were true, which I do not believe, ability and success are completely different. I have seen many an able “horse” not want to run, and I have seen others perhaps not so able who would run and run and run, and of course win. If you don’t get a spot in the race, you can never win. One of my favorite inspirational stories of back in my day was of a woman who was armless and legless who became an attorney. In some cultures they would have thrown her in the garbage at birth. Here, she was able to help others despite her physical issues.</p>
<p>BTW, I didn’t start out upper middle class. I came from a working class background where my Dad did not even have a HS education. I did many things in my life because I heard that girls can’t or shouldn’t do this or that and I felt otherwise. </p>