<p>"Not paid=not worth as much/not as valuable. Just ordinary tasks and responsibilities that everyone does here and there, the sum total of which does not add up to a “career.” "</p>
<p>But you can’t just define “every responsibility you have” as a career. I mow the lawn, but that’s not a career. That’s a responsibility I have. I manage certain parts of my finances and my husband manages the other parts. Those are responsibilities we have and that happens to be how we’ve divided them up, but if they were all to fall to either one of us that wouldn’t make it our career. If a recall notice comes up and I’m managing the household such that I make arrangements to have the car taken in, that may be an important responsibility and a task that I need to get done, but the person with the career is the mechanic who fixes the car.</p>
<p>I want to be VERY clear. NOWHERE have I said that what women like atomom do is unimportant, or trivial, or not worthy of respect, or that they are sitting around eating bon-bons. NOWHERE have I said or insinuated that they don’t take these responsibilities seriously, treat them seriously, endeavor to do them to the best of their ability, or that their families shouldn’t be appreciative / grateful. But not every household or self-care responsibility is a career. </p>
<p>Because if you define cleaning, cooking, paying the bills, etc. as a career, then I repeat - the 25 yo single guy who comes home from his day job and does this things “has a second career.” Does that make sense? It doesn’t to me. These are just life responsibilities. They are important, but different. That’s all. </p>
<p>I just came from a meeting with my mother’s doctor - she is having an operation and will be staying with me for some time. It is important because I’m a good daughter to accompany my mother to the doctor, help find out info about her operation, etc. It is important to me to show up at the hospital and wait for her, to amuse her in her hospital bed, to be her advocate to the doctors, and to help care for her when she gets home. These are very important things that need to be done. But they aren’t my career. They are just my (in this case) daughterly duties.</p>
<p>“My opinion is that it should be considered a career, even though the financial renumeration is not explicit.”</p>
<p>Some men with SAH wives have wives who take their homemaking very seriously, cook all the meals, really work hard to use the family’s financial resources wisely, and so forth.</p>
<p>Other men with SAH wives have wives who may hire out housekeeping or child care, may go out to eat frequently, may spend significant time in personal pursuits / hobbies.</p>
<p>I say good for all of them; they don’t need to justify anything to me, unless they are on my dime.</p>
<p>Do the women in the second group have careers just as much as the women in the first group?</p>
<p>Ask atomom. She is the one to whom it matters, who (wrongly) inferred that because I wasn’t calling her responsibilities a career, that they were less important and that they (and by inference) she was less worthy, when I said nothing of the sort. </p>
<p>I think labels are important. On other threads, we seem to have all decided that in certain cases it is okay for individuals to label themselves however they choose. Sometimes we defend their right to do so. Why is it important to deny atomom that label if she desires it? I am reading the denial of the label as an attempt to distance, diminish and marginalize. I don’t even care about the definition of the label. </p>
<p>I am going to subvert the whole issue of labels by just going ahead and claiming to do “nothing”</p>
<p>I think one way we experience the world is through labeling. The OP is questioning whether we label ourselves in a certain way.</p>
<p>Then why have words with any meaning at all? </p>
<p>No one denies that child-rearing is hard. I have not heard anyone suggest that the responsibilities associated with it are less important than those associated with work done outside the home. It’s just not a “career” the way the word is commonly defined. </p>
<p>I tell people I am retired and they have problems understanding that. They want to know what I do and how they spend my time. They never wanted these details when I was working. So to make things easier, I tell people I work out of my house. They physically relax. </p>
<p>I like the do nothing response. I do nothing the same way Seinfeld was about nothing. :)</p>
<p>“Just because it’s not a “common” definition does not mean it is not valid.”</p>
<p>But it’s a meaningless definition if it just means “any responsibility that you have for yourself.” </p>
<p>My college-age kids are responsible for cleaning their rooms, doing their own laundry, managing their bills, etc. That doesn’t mean that they have “careers” doing so. Their primary job right now is to be students, and they also have to manage the responsibilities that come as part of becoming an adult.</p>
<p>That’s not how people are defining it. And definitions may not have clear boundaries; there may be a set of characteristics where some are critical and others are auxiliary. I’d have to think more about it, but I think one aspect of a job or a career in society is some aspect of specialization. Also, is what your doing a service for just yourself or is it ‘consumed’ by others. A woman who does her own laundry and makes dinner for herself is a housewife. If she does it routinely for herself and her family for years, then it is more like a career.</p>
<p>Men who mow the lawn and change the oil in the car and kill the spiders don’t seem to need to claim gardener / mechanic / exterminator as their career, however. Why is that?</p>
<p>^It’s a matter of degree. The amount of time needed to do such things is not on the scale of how time consuming being a typical housewife is. If it was, a man would find great difficulty having a full-time career. </p>
<p>I realize there are some loose edges to this argument, as someone who was a mom who worked asked if she had two careers, pointing out that she didn’t outsource everything. </p>
<p>So I can call myself an expert skier even though I’ve only skied once. Or my friend can be a certified mechanic because he likes to tinker with his car.</p>
<p>Well, obviously these people are (or were) wealthy beyond measure because of their work. Not drawing a salary is not the same as not being compensated.</p>
<p>Or a 25 year old man maintaining his own apartment can be considered to have the same set of responsibilities as a stay at home mom with 3 children. </p>
<p>" I’d have to think more about it, but I think one aspect of a job or a career in society is some aspect of specialization."</p>
<p>Some homemakers have high, professional-level skills in some areas (let’s say cooking, sewing, etc.).
Others have “everyday” skills, and still others have poorer skills.</p>
<p>Some women turn out gourmet meals 3x/ day; others rely on cereal, yogurt, pre-prepared foods.
Some women sew their kids’ clothing from scratch; others buy clothing at stores.
Some women keep house like Martha Stewart; others have lots of dust bunnies.
And so on and so forth.</p>
<p>Does any of that matter in determining whether it’s a career? </p>
<p>IOW, can the SAHM who relies on chicken nuggets and has lots of dust bunnies call herself a career homemaker the same way that the SAHM who turns out gourmet dishes and you can run a white glove anywhere? What if the family of the first SAHM is just happy as a clam with chicken nuggets and dust bunnies? </p>
<p>“The amount of time needed to do such things is not on the scale of how time consuming being a typical housewife is. If it was, a man would find great difficulty having a full-time career.”</p>
<p>So it’s the everyday-nature-repetitiveness that makes the difference?
My husband cooks dinner most nights - he’s better at it than me, and he enjoys it whereas I don’t.
Does he have two careers then?</p>
So to make things easier, I tell people I work out of my house. They physically relax. </p>