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<p><a href=“Career - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career</a></p>
<p>I decided I cared enough about the definition to look it up. Though I still think the definition is irrelevant for the purposes of this thread.</p>
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<p>This two careers question has come up a few times. I’ll use a different example. A fairly well-known scientist I met writes novels in her spare time which have actually been published. Her first priority is science and it is in this field she is world-renowned; in contrast, the number of novels she writes and the amount of time and energy she puts into them is much less. Does she have two careers? Well, sort of yes and sort of no.</p>
<p>Is her novel writing comparable as a career to Michael Crichton? No, not at all. </p>
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<p>Deferred compensation is not the same as no compensation.</p>
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<p>Only some of their responsibilities are similar. And again, those of us who WOTH also have them. Toilets don’t scrub themselves.</p>
<p>Maybe a better way of looking at it is…“are you contributing to producing a good or service that is consumed or used by others (generally, in response to economic demand)?” That may not be quite right but it helps make a distinction. It sadly also counts jobs like flipping burgers as McDonald’s as careers.</p>
<p>How ugly is it for me to point out some of these posts are almost unbelievably ugly? I’m getting out my scales. And getting judgey.</p>
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<p>I would say to this very simply that some people are good at their jobs and some are not. Some care a lot and develop high-level skills, and some do not. </p>
<p>I don’t see why a discussion of semantics is “judgey.” I have the utmost respect for women who stay home with their kids. My mom was a SAHM and I only wish I could have given my kids the attention she gave me and my sister. In the case of atomom and her seven kids–well, that’s just Olympic-level parenting. </p>
<p>I don’t know why anyone who gets to (or has to) stay home with kids cares about whether other people call it a “career.” I think I am a very good cook but I would never proclaim myself a “chef” and wouldn’t be offended if a professional chef reminded me that I wasn’t.</p>
<p>Not allowing people to define themselves as they choose seems extremely disrespectful to me.</p>
<p>And I provided a dictionary definition that covers atomom’s homemaking as a career. According to OED.</p>
<p>Martha Stewart housekeeping has nothing to do with one’s parenting skills. IMO it is often those with the most fabulously kept homes who seem to be taking time away from their kids to keep them that way. I first learned how to properly fan napkins while helping set up for a 3rd grade ice cream social in our D’s classroom. Martha Stewart Mom actually grabbed the stack of paper napkins from me with a, “here, this is how you do it!” Setting them on the table in two nice stacks wasn’t good enough apparently. She had two kids who were the same grades as my two and I have to say that she excelled at all categories except the hands on parenting part. However, I hate to think that 3rd grade ice cream social was above my parenting pay grade 8-| </p>
<p>“Or a 25 year old man maintaining his own apartment can be considered to have the same set of responsibilities as a stay at home mom with 3 children.”</p>
<p>I agree that the 25 yo man maintaining his own apt has a “lesser” set of responsibilities than a SAHM with 3 children, a dog and a cat. </p>
<p>By the same token, the SAHM’s in my neck of the woods who have 1 child, housekeeping help and don’t have to worry about a budget have a “lesser” set of responsibilities than the middle-class SAHM with 3 children, dog and cat who doesn’t have money to throw around. Does that make the second one more deserving of the word career?</p>
<p>No one here is saying that the work of caring for children and a house isn’t work or that it isn’t valuable. We are just questioning why it is that cleaning the kitchen / paying your bills / doing the laundry is part of a career when it’s done during the weekday by an at-home parent but it’s a chore when done on the weekend by a working parent. It seems to me that these are always chores / responsibilities that just need to be done to run a household. Some people enjoy them and others don’t; some people turn them into art forms and others don’t. </p>
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<p>No one is “not allowing” anything. If someone wants to describe herself as a “career homemaker” of course that is her prerogative.</p>
<p>I don’t see why the SAHM deserves more respect than women who have to (or want to) work, though. Opting out of a career outside the home because you have a spouse who can support your whole family on one income is a luxury–and let’s face it, that is what we are mostly talking about here (as opposed to people who are at home because they have lost jobs or have to take care of a special needs child or whatever).</p>
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<p>(My bold.) And here’s where we run into trouble. We can argue about whether being a SAHM parent is a career. But let’s stop saying being a SAHM mother isn’t work. Of course it’s work. If the SAHM parent wasn’t doing the work, they’d have to pay someone else to do it; that baby isn’t going to diaper herself, and the laundry isn’t going to wash itself.</p>
<p>“A fairly well-known scientist I met writes novels in her spare time which have actually been published. Her first priority is science and it is in this field she is world-renowned; in contrast, the number of novels she writes and the amount of time and energy she puts into them is much less. Does she have two careers? Well, sort of yes and sort of no.”</p>
<p>I see a distinction between being paid and not-paid. I’m thinking of two friends of mine – one who does a lot of singing in a church choir, the other who acts in community theater plays. These are interests, hobbies, avocations – they take them seriously, they work hard at them, they bring joy to others through what they are doing – but they aren’t careers since they aren’t professional musicians / actors. Which isn’t bad. The word career is not the ultimate meaning in life, and it doesn’t mean that something isn’t valuable because it’s not one’s career. </p>
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<p>I can relate to this.</p>
<p>I haven’t worked outside my home for years but I have A LOT of people asking me what I did all day when my children went away for college. I wanted privacy so I would always say “Nothing, but I am busy all the time.”
Now if people persist to know what I retired from and working out of my house doesn’t seem to satisfy them, I say " I was CEO of a small family office." I’ve started to acknowledge my financial contribution to the family as a career.</p>
<p>Career is simply how you choose to spend your time and energy.
Monetary compensation is besides the point.
All the definitions I find online agree with me.
:)</p>
<p>“Career is simply how you choose to spend your time and energy.”</p>
<p>But that’s not true! When I retire, and I work on getting more fit, and taking classes that interest me, and finally organizing the basement, or whatever – that doesn’t make that constellation of things my career. They are my interests, hobbies, whatever. </p>
<h1>453 - Yes. This is what I am finding as well. “career woman” is a late addition to the definition and really not the primary meaning. Although, that is really beside the point in a thread that now has many posts denigrating SAHMs in one way or another, while describing the world through ‘us’ vs. ‘them’ eyes.</h1>
<p>Romani: what are your thoughts at this point in the thread? Are you still surprised some women opt out of the feminist label? I’m about ready to do so myself.</p>
<p>No. I don’t shy away from a label just because I may or may not agree with what others who share the label think. If I did, I wouldn’t label myself a feminist, queer, vegetarian, atheist, hell- I’m mildly ashamed to be a Michigander right now (I’m looking at you, Circuit Court). </p>
<p>I am a feminist. I 100% believe that SAHPs are important- vitally so, in fact. I think we as a society should absolutely, 100% support parents who choose to stay at home. I also think we should expand universal, good-quality child care for any parents who want to have a career. </p>
<p>I still maintain that a SAHP isn’t a career. I’m not going to beat it to death though, which is why I stopped responding. Just not really a fight worth fighting IMO.</p>
<p>I hate the mommy wars. I think they’re sickening. I have friends who are SAHMs, I have friends who are SAHDs, I have friends who are two career parents- as long as it works for them, I do not care what people pick. </p>
<p>Am I surprised by women who opt out of the feminist label? No, absolutely not. I wasn’t before this thread. Do I still think they’re misguided and we need feminism? Yes, absolutely. </p>
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<p>I think the point is that some are doing it all: working outside the home AND in the home in their “free” time. I believe this is a heroic endeavor deserving of admiration and respect. They are all amazing women. But I don’t need to make a single comparison to make that statement. It stands on its own just fine. imho</p>
<p>Completely OT - but romani, I join in your disgust with the Circuit Court today. Really?!</p>
<p>You and everyone with a brain or heart, scout! </p>