Where do you stand on feminism?

Parent Cafe
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<p>There’s a difference between denotation and connotation. Use of the word career, specifically, has shifted: in 18th century literature, you’ll very often see “career” as a synonym for “course” (i.e, "He ran rapidly, but was stopped in his career by a voice calling “Halt”). By the mid-nineteenth century, “career” generally means profession.</p>

<p>Now that that’s out of the way, how about a compromise: being a SAHM, because it is so time-consuming and valuable, and because it involves work performed for others rather than work performed exclusively for one’s own benefit, is the EQUIVALENT of a career. That makes it very different from a guy who mows the lawn, the bill-paying bachelor, the bird-watching enthusiast, etc. Because it also precludes other forms of full-time employment, “homemaker” might, in certain contexts, be referred to as a career - if someone asks a SAHM what her career is, it would be more sensible to say “I’m a stay at home mom” than “I don’t have one.”</p>

<p>On the other hand, being a SAHM is not a “career” in the way that doctor, lawyer, and firefighter is. Leaving the consulting firm to stay at home with your kids may be an admirable choice, but it isn’t one that can meaningfully be described (at least without some irony)a career change. Rather, you are choosing to stay at home rather than pursuing a professional career in a particular field. Which again, is fine - I’m grateful that my own mom did it – but doesn’t change the fact that being a SAHM doesn’t tally with most commonly accepted usage of the term career.</p>

<p>I’m not sure, however, that paid or unpaid can be the litmus test because, at risk of opening another can of worms, I’m not sure that every job is a career either. Duration and intention also seems to be relevant. For instance, someone who does Teach for America for two years with the intention of doing something entirely different afterwards hasn’t adopted teaching as a career, even though he or she is working as a teacher. Retail can be a career - but it isn’t the “career” of the sixteen year old working in the mall for the summer, or for the adult who gets laid off and takes a job at Macy’s to pay the bills. </p>

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<p>Okay - one last try.</p>

<p>Romani: would you be insulted if someone challenged your identification of yourself as queer? Who gets to define queer? </p>

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<p>I constantly have people challenging my identity as queer since I’m marrying a cis-male. Do I find it offensive? Nope. I see it as an opportunity to have a conversation.</p>

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<p>Great post , apprentice prof. </p>

<p>No one is denigrating SAHMs. </p>

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<p>“I constantly have people challenging my identity as queer since I’m marrying a cis-male. Do I find it offensive? Nope. I see it as an opportunity to have a conversation.”</p>

<p>A cis-male? Who talks like that? </p>

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<p>"being a SAHM, because it is so time-consuming and valuable, and because it involves work performed for others rather than work performed exclusively for one’s own benefit, is the EQUIVALENT of a career. "</p>

<p>Similarly, someone who refrains from paid work to take care of an elderly / disabled parent may be doing really important and critical work, but it’s typically not referred to as a career. Which is not a denigration of it - it’s just that words have meaning. </p>

<p>My MIL has Alzheimer’s. My FIL cares for her, and they also have a paid caregiver who serves another role. Both of them do important work. </p>

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<p>Yikes. I guess every single time we use the word “work” we need to add “outside the home.” Really?? Are people so defensive that they can’t understand the spirit of what others are saying?</p>

<p>Lots of things that are not part of a career are “work”–snowblowing the driveway, training for a triathlon, dealing with unpleasant people, etc. etc. When a person says “I have to go to work” in the context of how one spends one’s day, that almost always means “I have to go to the place that gives me a paycheck.”</p>

<p>I think it’s also lost on some people here that many of us have had extended stretches at home–during a maternity leave, between jobs, etc. It’s not as though we don’t understand how busy a day can be doing household chores or taking care of little kids.</p>

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<p>And I think we can see easily why some women don’t have a lot of interest in second wave feminism.</p>

<p>And I think, too, we can see easily why women still act like colonized people, infighting for recognition of “who is working harder” rather than identifying the fact that when a woman has a child her options are changed, except for the very highest in SES. We are well educated women here. All of us.</p>

<p>Still, instead of talking about the fact that the responsibility for the home and child still falls to women, instead of discussing the fact that a significant number of men still just walk away from their families and this is not considered a felony, which it should be (women are put in prison for doing drugs when they are pregnant in states which make access to abortion practically impossible to surmount, but men in these same states can just walk away with no consequence).</p>

<p>And, yet, we still want to fight over who is “working” harder.</p>

<p>Guess what, women are working harder in situations where there are children.</p>

<p>If a father participates, he is lauded like the second coming for participating at a level a woman would be judged as practically negligent. </p>

<p>And this is what our daughters see. And this is why it is better to be a mother in France than it is the US. Period. </p>

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<p>^Very true. What they also see is that in situations where the woman stays home, she is less valued by society when Daddy leaves her for the administrative assistant during his midlife crisis. They see that she has few marketable skills and has a tough time finding a job, even if she has a college education. They know she has worked hard in the home–they have seen it and benefited from it–but life isn’t fair and she does not get credit for this “work.” </p>

<p>I have seen this exact scenario play out with women I know and I feel sorry for them. But I also admit to wondering why they put all their faith in a man for their entire sustenance and that of their kids. Once the kids are in school, what is stopping someone from working part time if for no other reason than to protect against the unexpected? It doesn’t take all day to clean the house or go to the store or fix dinner–obviously, a lot of us manage outside the hours of our full-time jobs. I would love to have time to keep my house in shipshape condition and bake my own bread and go to hot yoga every day, but I don’t. And I guess I’m cynical enough that I think it’s risky for any woman to make that choice.</p>

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<p>Somebody mentioned firefighter as a career. I agree that firefighting is an admirable career.</p>

<p>Why is it more valued than daycare worker? Why do we pay higher?</p>

<p>It tells us a lot about ourselves. And it tells us a lot about other countries when they value their childcare workers as professionals. This is maybe more interesting to me than whether or not we can call stay at home parent a career. Of course anybody can call it a career. If you tell me that is your career? I agree with you. </p>

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<p>Yes, Sally, and this is why anyone who decides to be a stay at home spouse should get a post nup to protect themselves.</p>

<p>I don’t know one man who had a woman stay at home whose career did not benefit tremendously from that freedom. And a woman with a stay at home spouse will benefit as well. Total freedom to concentrate on your career, rather than having to leave work cuz the kid is sick, or not travel cuz the kids are little, is hugely beneficial.</p>

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<p>Oh give me a break. In all the years you’ve seen me post on here, have you ever seen me say anything like that? No. I said it very specifically in the context of the question. In the context of defining myself as queer, understanding why people might challenge that label- since I’m marrying a man, specifically a cis-man- is important. </p>

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<p>@apprenticeprof‌’s comment is useful re “career.” The word is not a synonym for paid work. “Career” implies some kind of meaningful development or trajectory; promotion, increasing responsibility and skill level, increasing recognition. The reality is that most people (men and women) in paid work don’t have careers in that sense; they have a series of jobs they perform for pay in order to keep body and soul together. </p>

<p>The desire to see one’s life work as a "career’ speaks to the universal human need for recognition and respect. In our present-day society, people who do not get paid are not respected, even if their work is vital. Every able-bodied adult is expected to be in the labor market as a norm (this is very new). Any interaction or task that is not monetized is not counted. But mothers working in low-paid crappy jobs are not living the feminist dream. </p>

<p>Incidentally I disliked Sheryl Sandberg’s Lean In (a book that was very popular on my D’s campus) because to me, its message is essentially, “Man up, ladies.” That’s not helpful. The problem with combining a professional career with motherhood is not all of this junk about being “afraid of success” or being “afraid to rock the boat.” It’s not a psychological barrier; it’s a logistics issue that women are expected to magically solve alone by changing their attitudes.</p>

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<p>The issue is that I support equality. Tilting education to heavily disregard how boys learn is bad for society and will lead to negative consequences down the line.</p>

<p>Young girls are the future. Young boys are also the future. They both deserve our best efforts and our efforts do not need to be a zero-sum situation. Society does not need more young males losing their interest in education. The problem is bad enough already.</p>

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<p>@NJSue Very interesting insight.</p>

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<p>We all want the best education for our kids of either gender–that is not in dispute.</p>

<p>But your comments raise another question related to this thread. If we want to prepare women for careers including being a housewife, where are the high school classes in home economics-type subjects that used to be so popular in past decades? Don’t we want young people to be well-trained for whatever vocation or career path they choose?</p>

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<p>i agree Sally.
They have done away with the coed cooking classes and " survival" type classes that require students to write a budget after they do research on living expenses. All to get more AP or at least Stem classes in the building because that is what looks good to the organizations that might hire district administration once they move on.</p>

<p>Also no more metal shop, wood shop auto body or auto repair classes.
In my district, they are even limiting recess to the point that kids who are on FRL and have to stand in line, are forgoing lunch so they will get a few minutes of play time.</p>

<p>But instead of saying that the school day should be extended so they can have time for lunch AND exercise, the district is going to implement a task force to consider if children really need recess and aim for their conclusion in 18 months.</p>

<p>Everyone should know how to cook, write a budget, build something and apply for a job.
Vocational classes are still required by the district to graduate, but offerings are slim.</p>

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<p>“And, yet, we still want to fight over who is “working” harder.”</p>

<p>Who is fighting over who is working harder? I don’t work nearly as hard as the single working mother who has to schlep her kids on two buses to daycare and doesn’t have the financial ability that I have to have someone scrub her floors. She can win that “who has it harder” contest - god bless her. </p>

<p>Saying that something isn’t a career isn’t saying that it’s not hard, or that it’s not valuable. Having infant twins is hard (been there done that!). Caring for an elderly parent is hard. Losing 100 pounds is hard. Escaping an abusive marriage is hard. </p>

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<p>There was recently an article in National Geographic about hunger in the United States. It made a point about the collapse in popular knowledge about how to cook from scratch, and how that ignorance has a negative effect on family nutrition. Many people simply do not know how to cook low-cost nutritious food. This used to be taught in the schools as a life skill in home ec classes. Of course you also need an adult at home with some time to do this.</p>

<p>A class in personal finance would also be a welcome addition to a good home economics curriculum, IMHO.</p>

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<p><a href=“Feminists Should Embrace Home Economics | The New Republic”>http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117876/feminists-should-embrace-home-economics&lt;/a&gt; </p>

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