<p>CCPkrazy, what is it in feminism that you object to?</p>
<p>Flyme, I don’t get the bit about gender neutral bathrooms either. Many repressive societies where women are lower than chattel have gender neutral bathrooms! </p>
<p>CCP, that’s pretty ironic considering there’s some good evidence that Jesus was a pretty radical feminist. </p>
<p>I am always a little surprised and quite disappointed by the failure of both men and women to connect the ongoing fight for reforms with the gains that have been won in the past. I know many women (and this includes my students, unfortunately) who refuse to call themselves feminists, yet take for granted their right to vote, work, own property, get their abusive husbands thrown in jail, take action when their bosses want to have sex with them, etc.</p>
<p>In my mind, most American women are feminists and don’t even realize it.</p>
<p>Most of the problem seems to be one of definitions. NOW, for example, is involved in so many causes that young people (especially conservative people) associate feminism with a lot of things they don’t want to support.</p>
<p>The simple truth is that you can be a feminist without supporting gay rights or believing that women should be allowed to join the clergy in your church. You don’t have to be pro-choice. You don’t have to be vegan. You don’t have to grow out your armpit hair. You don’t have to be angry or hate men. It’s a shame this stuff isn’t obvious.</p>
<p>Are you on CC because you think women deserve an education and a chance at a career other than teaching or nursing? Surprise! You’re a feminist!</p>
<p>I know a mom whose once son now goes by she. This is a recent change, sometime in the last couple of years, and what to do about using public bathrooms is one of the matters I’ve heard about that has to be dealt with, one way or the other. I have no idea, btw, whether this is involving any kind of surgery or not, none of my business. Didn’t India recently recognize a third gender?</p>
<p>Perhaps gender neutral bathrooms are helpful for parents with small children of the opposite sex, too? Nowadays you do see some places specifically offering family restrooms.</p>
<p>I agree 100% with Katlia’s mom…We are having this discussion because the feminists that went before us did so much heavy lifting to get us where we are now. I am a feminist and my daughter is too, although I’m not sure she would publicly identify as such. I think her generation - recent college grads in the work force - are less into labels. I think it’s a sign of progress that things are more nuanced now. That said I love this piece that recently appeared in the Huffington Post…
<a href=“Why We Still Need Feminism | HuffPost Women”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
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<p>Compared to his times, yes. </p>
<p>I am a feminist. Not long ago women couldn’t get birth control without the permission of their husband. Note this means 1. her husband had to give permission. 2. She could only get birth control if she HAD a husband. Yikes! There are those in this country working to make certain forms of birth control illegal. Not just abortion, but actual birth control. I’m appalled by this. </p>
<p>My grandmother was a feminist. She was born the year women got the vote. She talked about that a lot. My mother, a feminist. (Both had careers.) Both of my daughters are feminists.</p>
<p>That said, if a man opens the door for me, I say thank you and I taught my daughters to do the same. Both expect to be taken on dates and do not participate in the hook up culture. I cannot open large jars and do not care. My husband was unable to give birth. This does not make him less of a human being. </p>
<p>My husband is a feminist. He believes in equal rights/equal pay for equal work/etc…</p>
<p>My oldest daughter thinks the word is trapped in old man hating meanings and she prefers a man who opens doors and car doors and carries things for her, etc… She wears dresses pretty much everywhere she goes. Interestingly, boys tripped all over themselves to give her what she wanted. I have seen her stand at a door and wait for a guy to catch up to open it, and I have seen young men actually break into a run to be the first one there.</p>
<p>She thinks we have given up too much in some of our feminist beliefs and it doesn’t allow men to be the kinds of boyfriends/fiances/husbands we actually want.</p>
<p>My youngest isn’t a deep thinker like that. If a guy opens a door she says thank you. If she and a guy get to the door first, she lets him open it. She thinks her sister is hillarious to wait a few seconds for the guys behind her to catch up.</p>
<p>I like the way they both think. They each seem to be demanding and getting what they want.</p>
<p>Isn’t that what we fought for?</p>
<p>The gender neutral bathrooms thread was about a young man in the dorms, where the slight majority of the people in the dorm were women, so they voted all the bathrooms to be either gender neutral, or for the women. Shouting down the guys objections by yelling, “Be quiet, oppressors!” That’s how I remember it. I don’t remember the title.</p>
<p>Regardless, this is a distractor. It was just an example of a reason that I think some of the younger generation think they are not feminists. When they see situations like this arise, and yes there are some very obnoxious and self centered young women, they think this is what feminism is. At least that’s my opinion, you can shout me down, if you like.</p>
<p>I think people have all sorts of ideas about what a feminist actually is, including many of us on this thread. I find it interesting that oldfort, an accomplished woman, isn’t sure if she is because she is polite to men and likes to look nice.
I recommend that any young woman who actually thinks she isn’t a feminist, to watch the video “Iron Jawed Angels” and then get back to us!</p>
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<p>Well, it depends entirely on the definition. I think the thing with activism of any sort is that, in this day and age, often there is no reflection of whether what they are advocating for is fundamentally fair. It’s like hiring a lawyer to win the case; the lawyer advocates for one side and pushes the law as far as it can go to win the case. It’s not their role to sit and reflect on whether their side is fair to everybody; it is their role to fight for one side’s advantage.</p>
<p>Yes, I am an older generation feminist. Gloria Steinem was my commencement speaker. After hearing her speak my father said to me, “This is what I sent you to college for?” 
Meanwhile, this was the same man who insisted that I be allowed to play in the “Father/Son” softball game that our religious organization would have at the annual picnic. He knew I’d be the best player on the field.</p>
<p>As for practical application, I don’t need men to hold doors open for me. Anyone who has manners should be holding the door open for the person behind them! Recently, I was helping to clean up a room at school which had been used for a special breakfast. There was a massive bowl which had been used to hold a fruit salad. It was still about 1/2 full and I walked over to pick it up to carry it upstairs. The head of my department, a big guy who had played D1 football, looked at me and said, “All the guys have refused to carry that up!” I just looked at him, picked it up and carried it upstairs. Yes, I’m old but I’m buff and really don’t need men to carry things for me unless they are actually stronger than I am. 
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<p>I went to law school when there weren’t too many women in the class, but it was clearly the start of a change in the field. In my first legal job, I was certainly in the minority but I did have the job I wanted. With my second legal job I know that a number of people applied for 2 open positions and heard later that the head of the department was very conflicted because he had liked the only two women he had interviewed best of all the candidates. We were both hired. He made the right decision. 
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<p>I am emphatically not a feminist and one of my daughters is with me on that. The other one is sort of a casual feminist.</p>
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I am confident that my daughter could get back to anyone and explain why she is not a feminist. There is not only one way to be a modern, accomplished woman. </p>
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<p>You are completely wrong on this. And your use of the word claim is very offensive. The lack of respect given by some women to women who are different from them is remarkable. As I said above, there isn’t only one way to be a woman.</p>
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It is a shame that it isn’t obvious to you that every woman gets to define herself, not anyone else. It is possible to not be a feminist and support some of those issues or not support others. </p>
<p>zoosermom, how do you define “feminism”? What are the tenets that you think someone must believe in order to be a feminist, but that you don’t believe?</p>
<p>I’m guessing that if I listed all the things <em>I</em> think one has to believe in order to be a feminist, you’d believe all of them.</p>
<p>Ah, zoosermom, but it is all how one defines what is a feminist. And you obviously have very negative ideas about what that is, so you don’t identify yourself as one. You are a very strong woman, who doesn’t put up with people pushing her around. In my vision, that’s a feminist. I am curious as to what you consider a feminist is.</p>
<p>Here is the thing. And busdriver, you know I love you. I don’t need to justify my positions to anyone. I could explain, and maybe I will, but this is what I think should always be the starting point. “Zoos, I may not agree with you, but I respect your right to define yourself as you see fit and my version of feminism honors every woman, not just the ones I agree with, and I won’t condescend to you or try to change your mind because I am sure your position is thoughtfully-considered and deeply-held.”</p>
<p>The definition of feminism is irrelevant because no one else gets to say well, if you believe this or don’t believe that, you have to be a feminist and I am going to make you submit, damnit! I am not a feminist. There is no definition of feminism that I will ever accept for myself. </p>
<p>@momof3sons. That feeling my daughter would get at the carry things and open doors condescension is exactly why my daughter, who is well educated, makes more money than her fiancé, and would fight for equal rights, would reject the label feminist. She likes that men and women are different. She would never carry that upstairs if there were big guys around to do it, and she thinks the idea that men and women are the same is ruining men. Not women. </p>
<p>I don’t understand the negative reaction to asking someone what their definition of feminism is. I think that’s a fair question whether one considers him/herself a feminist or not. </p>
<p>Feminism, for me, has always meant the radical notion that women are people. </p>
<p><em>shrug</em> </p>
<p>And I love you too, zoosermom, you know you’re my favorite, and you are a very strong woman. I don’t think anyone here (at least not me) would ever condescend to you, nor even attempt to change your mind. I personally am merely curious, as to what you consider a feminist is. But you certainly don’t have to feel obliged to answer. I wouldn’t consider it a personal question, I find it interesting. I’d suspect that some of us on this forum have completely different ideas about what the connotation of that word is.</p>
<p>Okay, here’s my new version. If we were alive 100 years ago, those women who think they’d be on the front lines with Susan B----would fit my definition of a feminist.</p>