<p>To address this, we will need men to
get involved. As a woman, I support making our educational system work for boys as well as girls. But as a woman I don’t know what we need to do. The men and boys need our support, the way we need the men, but the solutions need to come from men. I say this because the solutions for girls came from women </p>
<p>Where is the discrimination against males in college admissions? My son was courted extensively by liberal-arts colleges, especially those that have a skewed M/F ratio–just like prospective female STEM students are highly valued.</p>
<p>I am not assuming and don’t pretend to know. I do know that over time the message that young women are expected to have their own career and be able to fend for themselves has been sinking in. That could account for increased female college attendance. I am just throwing out ideas. Another idea is that, as someone mentioned upthread, there are places where women are entering education or allied health professions knowing that the predominant manufacturing, agriculture and resourced based economies in their areas are unstable. Someone upthread mentioned the stable income and benefits associate with many of those professions make it possible for a family to make it when combined with some of the traditionally male occupations which have been less stable recently.</p>
<p>I did suggest that our current rigid instruction and measurement models may hurt boys through school and in the application process. Based on our own family experience our kids who I would say have similar intelligence levels (tested as such in kindergarten) had very different school experiences and measurable results. Our D was always better at just giving teachers what they wanted and moving on. She played the game better and through school got the benefit of the doubt with teachers based on “golden child” status. She was the kid who made it easy on teachers.</p>
<p>I don’t think that’s always the case. Traditionally, boys were the ones who spoke up and got more of the teachers’ attention. In my family, I think my daughter was not well-served by the school system for numerous reasons.</p>
<p>Actually, that was a huge turning point. When they did those studies and found how much more attention boys got in school, particularly high school, a lot of women started to demand reform. But I agree that all that busy work, instead of just testing for mastery of the subject matter is tedious. </p>
<p>DS speaks up for sure, but speaking up is not always favored - at least in our district. It’s about plowing through mandated content and churning our formulaic papers and exams. Our system favors grinders. (by “our” I mean my particular district). Others may have a very different experience.</p>
<p>Believe me, I am hoping for that LAC ratio bump ;)</p>
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<p>and so on…</p>
<p><a href=“Against School - John Taylor Gatto”>http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm</a></p>
<p>
Similar experience here,sally.</p>
<p>Does this count as feminism? Because I don’t agree with this…</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/06/we-should-stop-putting-women-in-jail-for-anything/”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/06/we-should-stop-putting-women-in-jail-for-anything/</a></p>
<p>No. There are deeper currents to the incarceration of the poor for non-violent offenses including the inability to pay fines but that seems to apply to both men and women. I think the headline is sensationalistic and doesn’t quite reflect the content of the article. In terms of equity of treatment some jurisdictions are finally prosecuting and punishing solicitation more heavily than prostitution which could be seen as a feminist change.</p>
<p>I can’t remember now where I read the story, but there are places where for-profit diversionary programs have served as a center for sexual and labor exploitation of vulnerable women.</p>
<p>Poetgrl has made what I consider the most important point on several of these threads. As a society, in this country, we really don’t value children. I don’t think it is necessary all families have a SAHP. It isn’t even desirable, imho. Parents have different paths. I do think it matters who does childcare and early education. If we prioritized chidlcare, what would society look like? Is that a way to get beyond men vs. women, the mommy wars, and the labeling? </p>
<p>Of course our society values children. They’re future FICA taxpayers.</p>
<p>One of the biggest take aways for me on the education issue and in general is that feminism doesn’t mean a zero sum game. I know that the idea of feminism rankles some because the feel like it must be at someone’s expense but it isn’t.</p>
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<p>OT, but I just want to say that in recent years I worked for the Census Bureau gathering information for this survey (ACS), the Bureau of Labor Statistics survey that provides the most accurate information about employment, finances, and other issues to the nation (CPS), and some others. I quit, partially because I was tired of being abused by the public.</p>
<p>If you accept that governments at all levels are going to make decisions, and would prefer that they be made on the basis of actual data, be cooperative and civil if you are contacted to participate in one of these surveys.</p>
<p>Carry on.</p>
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<p>A big reason more women are heading to college is because many human service fields that have traditionally been dominated by women, such as elementary education, nursing, and social work, have undergone considerable credential creep within the last 60 years or so. That has not happened so much in the male-dominated trades, which still don’t require a college degree. It doesn’t have much to do with K-12 education in my view.</p>
<p>Men are not hurting because they aren’t going to college. They’re hurting because a wide swathe of high-paying manufacturing jobs available to men with a high school diploma have largely disappeared in this country. It’s not as if a college degree would solve their problems, unless they wanted to compete with women for lower-paid jobs in the helping professions (which most men still don’t seem all that interested in).</p>
<p>^excellent explanation</p>
<p>NJSue… interesting outlook. I agree with your first paragraph. I don’t think the first and second sentence in your second paragraph are mutually exclusive. I believe men are hurting b/c we are losing those manufacturing jobs, AND b/c they aren’t going to college. What is the education system in the United States doing to train men for jobs in the 21st century? I worry they will be left behind.</p>
<p>You say “men don’t seem all that interested” in certain jobs. If I said “women don’t seem all that interested in STEM careers” would you have the same reaction? Seems that the latter is identified as a big problem that requires national attention to fix… the former not so much.</p>
<p>Well, then men need to start some movement on it, in my opinion. If something needs to be done, they need to come up with some solutions, particularly Dads should get involved.</p>
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Dunno what the solution is, but know what it isn’t: they don’t all need to go to college. </p>