Where does bright & quirky thrive?

Parent Cafe
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TL;DR I have an 8yo with Aspergers who we are struggling to find a school to fit.

Thank you for all of the PMs. For those of you who have asked for an update, the NYC DOE has granted us a deferral which basically means they wave the white flag and “defer” his case to an approved private special needs school. (They will support his tuition.)

The challenge will be to find a place that will accept him.

I’m letting go of any expectations that school will educate him. We are very successful educating him at home using online teaching tools but more importantly he is extraordinarily successful educating himself with books.

I am now focused on getting him the therapeutic supports so that school an enjoyable experience, a place where he can learn friendship and peer-to-peer basics and how to self-advocate and negotiate with adults to meet their expectations. Right now school is a series of losing battles.

In a few years we may be looking for something more geared towards “2E” (twice exceptional aka bright and quirky) kids. Someplace innovative that can meet him where he is and nurture his talents (which are considerable, as are his challenges right now - we are hoping to work on the challenges intensely in the next few years).

I’d be interested to hear about schools (K-12) for bright & quirky if you have heard tell – or have direct experience. Will post on Davidson Institute (registration is buggy, am in email contact with admin) once I can.

H, a tenured academic, has “standing” career opportunities in Baltimore and Seattle. Those metro areas are of particular interest. But… we would go ANYWHERE for S1.

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You are very lucky to have this freedom. I wish you luck with finding the right place for your child.

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Since you mention Baltimore, my advice is to NOT live in Montgomery county if you choose that option. I have heard multiple stories that they are NOT supportive of private options, and they don’t always do a good job with kids with special needs.
Also, it sounds like NY schools have agreed to pay for private, but if you move you will need to negotiate with the school system in that area.

4

The NJ public schools have a very good reputation for providing programs and resources for kids on the spectrum. Perhaps there is an option that is not too far from NYC?

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I think it really varies. I know a 2E girl who was miserable in a public magnet for middle school (6th grade), so went to a very expensive private school for children who need a lot of support, but her parents just didn’t find challenging enough academically, and ended up in a traditional public high school with a lot of support in and out of the classroom. She did not have a classroom aid at any of the schools.

Each child responds to school differently, so what is best for one might not work at all for another. The private school mentioned above is considered ‘the best’ in this city, and it has worked for many other kids with learning and behavior problems. The girl’s parents have recommended it to other families, but just thought their daughter needed something else academically.

If NYC schools have approved you to attend any school, that’s a big reason to stay in NYC as you now have the ability to pick. I think your therapist and school counselors may have the best advice on where to go, what type of school your son would do best in, if small or large would work best.

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I don’t know about schools but have you thought about getting him a Service Dog. Take a look at 4pawsforability.org. This could help him on the friendship and social aspect that those on the spectrum struggle with. I volunteer for this organization and I can tell you they are outstanding! They truly believe in their mission and take the time to get it right for each dog and child.

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Service Dogs and other service animals can make a HUGE difference for some people. I had a friend who got service horses for both of her kids who had multiple complicated medical issues. They thrived with the horses!

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@twoinanddone it really does very.

I think S1’s perfect school would be a flora and fauna filled nature center in the middle of a forest where he would have responsibility to care for the plants and animals and give a few short talks each day to visitors. Upstairs would be a library and lab/maker space where he would conduct research. He’s fascinated by immune systems right now. And geology. Half of his day would be spent marching around doing field work.

Fantasy aside, he needs to work on basic human-human interaction (outside the “giving talks” type of interaction) so we need a school which will give him a lot of time and space to develop his social self (in a guided, healthy way).

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^^^That is a beautifully described learning experience - remember all those things when you are looking for a school for him. You may not find that 100% but I hope, hope, hope that you can find a couple of those attributes in a school.

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@abasket S1 has what E. O. Wilson called biophilia - an innate urge to connect with other forms of life. He gets really really excited by turning over a rotting log and observing the minute world of insects, or turning over a fern and noticing the pattern of spores. I would add on top of that ideal-philia. He is attracted to big ideas (about the universe, why we exist, what is life). He LOVES to connect with kindred spirits and chew the fat.

But he has failed to conduct himself in a classroom. This is the third school kicking him out.

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My daughter went to an expeditionary learning school. It was somewhat as you describe, lots of nature and exploring, but there are some required parts of learning too (it is a public school, after all). Most of the students have an IEP or 504 plan (my daughter was one of the few who didn’t, and took no medication). I almost died when I saw the giant bag of medications they took along when they went on an expedition. I swear every kid had a gallon ziplock with medication.

They did have to ask one student to leave. It was the son of a middle school teacher, and he couldn’t be controlled in the classroom or outside (he was a ‘runner’). He had his own aid, but he just couldn’t fit in with enough of the curriculum to make him part of the ‘crew’ and they were worried about his getting hurt or lost on trips. But there were plenty of other students who couldn’t have made it in a traditional classroom but did fine because they didn’t have to sit at desks for long periods or even in the classroom much.

The ‘grading’ was by portfolio, and they worked on them all year. They tried to have the curriculum be all inclusive, like if they were studying wolves, the reading would be about wolves, the art projects, the science unit, the music, and the expedition would be to Yellowstone.

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Sounds very early ‘Steiner’ school-ish, @twoinanddone. I can clearly see how that approach to education and student inclusion (in the ideas undertaken) would be successful for many, many children - even those without IEPs or those not 2Es.

It sounds as if there were lots of opportunities for play with manipulatives, for discourse and expression of the aha! idea which can hit one at any moment. Intriguing.

@Aspieration : It does sound as if you have at your fingertips the amazing resources of the state and your own insightful, forward and critical eye. I hope you can work things out for the best. I cannot imagine being asked to withdraw my child from a school.

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We were required to withdraw our child from private school after JR year because of frequent and prolonged absences due to chronic medical condition which was documented. It was very stressful but worked out for the best as the CC scheduling was much more flexible and that helped with the student’s limited stamina.

I’d imagine it’s much tougher for your little guy having been kicked out of three schools. It makes it even harder to form important social bonds after such school rejection. It’s good NYC is willing to pay for private school–the certainly gives you more options. I’d ask whatever resource people the school has about what schools make get he a good fit For your S and then go and visit–first by yourself and then with your S to the finalists.

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If I remember from past posts, this current school was very, very structured. I’m not too surprised that it didn’t work so well (I have a kid with some qualities in common with your S, and I remember thinking that it would have been a disaster for my kid). It is a lot to expect to move to a new city to find a school fit, though. Have you looked at Waldorf schools? Not sure if it would be a fit or not, though – if he has conduct issues in the classroom, you may need to figure out a way to homeschool.

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@intparent We were kicked out of that school months ago. He is currently being kicked out of a plain-vanilla local public school with an autism inclusion program. Despite the match with his profile in theory, in practice the teachers and admin are not able to make it work. For a few weeks they tried everything they could think of to coax him to do worksheets and write (worksheets and writing are the behavioral triggers - aka half of what traditional school is all about). For the past month or so they let him opt out and read to avoid triggering behaviors (ripping up work, scribbling out worksheets, negative talk). At this point the school is reinforcing the notion that you can just opt out of whatever you don’t want to do, and so we’re not fighting the expulsion.

Now, I can get him to work (worksheets, writing, anything) but it is 1:1 at home with Mom.

@waitingtoexhale I wept openly in the street the first time (kicked out of Montessori), the second time (highly structured charter school) I was sad but there was just a gulf between what they expected and what he could do. He just didn’t buy into what school is all about. More or less ditto this time. I’ve been hoping for some ‘click’ with a teacher who gets his profile, sees the extraordinary kid beneath the resistance and puts it into perspective. As in, OK, he doesn’t want to do a second grade math worksheet but wants discuss what he just read in a book about the history of symbolism in art. Hmm. I can work with this.

But school has been a series of ‘our way or the highway’ experiences. So I’m GIVING UP on the notion that school = education and embracing the notion that school = therapy – hence – let’s get him into a school which provides the best most appropriate therapy for what he needs. What does he need? He needs to learn to conduct his public, social self in a manner that will appeal to strangers and win over and keep friends. For example, we don’t scowl when we don’t get what we want. We ask, “How are YOU?” We pause after a minute or two of a monolog about terraforming Mars and check in with whomever we are speaking with (are they still interested? do they want to share something?). When we have to do something we do not want to do, we figure out a strategy (reward, breaks, a little music or when all else fails ask for help. We do NOT rip up or scribble out worksheets.) Like that. [And to any readers who wonder if S1s behavior suggests that my parenting is clearly deficient – something I’ve heard this from many, many people (teachers, friends, random people we encounter) I present you with EXHIBIT B aka S2 who is a “good kid” and a terrific student and popular and the whole nine yards.]

So Mom = education. Luckily I can tap the myriad resources available to support the math and English basics via online programs (we’ve been doing this for years on and off and on consistently for months).

And over the past 8+ years I’ve built collection of thousands of hand-picked books on almost every subject, all meticulously organized. Book mess is the one kind of mess I love to see in our house. H grumbles about “piles of books everywhere” but to me they are physical evidence of curious children exploring the world of ideas.

So my attitude is I have a insatiably curious alive-minded child who school just doesn’t want. OK. I can work with this.

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I know you are desperate for solutions. This is honestly not where you will find them. Get the Davidson account working, and try the 2E forum there. But I am also 99% sure that you are going to get the same answer no matter where you ask – for now, figure out how to make homeschooling work. Find opportunities for social engagement for him in addition. Look for for a therapist with a specialty in 2E kids (the Davidson group may be able to suggest someone in your area). That person can also help you figure out ways to modify his behavior so he maybe able to participate in a classroom setting in the future.

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I agree with intparent, even those of us with 2E kids are long past looking at elementary schools. Any information we have is likely to be out of date.

And as a general rule, what works for one kid, may not work at all for another, no matter how similar they seem. My son’s favorite teacher was a kindergarten teacher that most parents of boys didn’t like. She clicked with my kid, who knows why.

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Good luck. I focused on the social/emotional over the academic with my bright but anxious kid. It made sense to do so to me because 1) in the long run he would be held back more by his anxiety than by not being hyper accelerated in math and 2) he would be happier if he could learn to control his anxiety. Feeling calmer and more in control he could do small things like volunteer to take the class gerbil home.

Just be aware that your son’s needs may well change over time. You will find the perfect elementary school and everything will be great and then all of a sudden he will need something different. Don’t be afraid to try something else. Also, be confident that you are making the best choice you can for his needs now. There may be a trade off between indulging his exciting intellectual gifts and working on his social weaknesses, at least in the short term. I look back and think I could have put my kid in a small, private school with kids like him (not anxious, but affluent, smart, pampered and protected) and school would have been easier and more fulfilling academically, but he would not have learned to get along with the wide range of people he meets in the world. (He could have been a much praised star mathlete, but instead he was a yelled at tight end. I chose the school, he chose the activity.)

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Is it possible that rather than trying to find a school to fit your son, he may be better served by strategies to change his behavior so that he may fit into a school? As you note, at this point you would like school to serve as therapy for him. Are there therapeutic schools, either day or boarding, which your doctors can help you identify for him to receive a more specialized therapeutic experience?

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It seems to me that what you’re looking for from a school is not at all what school is designed to do. The schools have so far failed to provide your child what you want because they are not even trying to do that. Most people who are reluctant to homeschool are afraid they can’t handle the academics, but you aren’t worried about that. That’s great! Find a therapist for the other stuff. I just don’t see any benefit to your bright, curious child being cooped up in a classroom all day.