There are many threads here discussing the benefit of attending a prestigious university. I think we can take it as a given that certain very top schools give a boost into certain careers. How far down the rankings does that boost go? I am thinking purely about outcome and specifically not about “fit” or the caliber of intellectual discourse during a student’s time at college. I’m also thinking about the same student at each college, not the student body as a whole. In other words, what happens to the student who could get into the more prestigious school, but chooses to go to the least.
For example, do students from Brandeis University have better career prospects than students from Vilanova? Do Vilanova students do better than Fordham? Does Fordham do better than Mercer? And in general, how much of a bump does Brandeis University give over a school like Mercer or any similarly ranked university?
The same question for LAC’s. For example, do Pomona students have better prospects than Bucknell? Does Bucknell do better than Beloit? Does Beloit do better than Ursinus? And how much better do Pomona students do vs. Ursinus?
There is more to it than just “better” career prospects. Better ROI? Higher starting salary? More acceptances to grad school? I also think prestige is in the eye of the beholder. We live near a a prestigious school, especially for STEM. Many of those students go to a nearby regional university’s career fair because employers have figured out that the regional university’s students are more career ready and flock there to recruit. These two schools aren’t even close in ranking yet the lower ranked school (by over 100 places according to USNR), has a better local reputation to employers.
While there may be somewhat of an outcomes bump, I think the bigger “bump” is in quality and capabilities of one’s fellow students and the general intellectual atmosphere.
At almost any college, there will be at least some very motivated, capable, and intellectually curious students. At the top colleges, almost every student is that way. Prestige or ranking or whatever you want to call it roughly indicates the general level of most students. A top student can get a great education and find like-minded peers almost anywhere, but will have to search harder at CW Post than at Ursinus, harder at Ursinus than Brandeis, etc. IMO, that is why going to a higher ranked college is worthwhile.
In terms of outcomes— while the higher-ranked colleges have better graduation rates, and may send higher percentages of students on to top grad schools (e.g., brochures from Williams note that the most-attended PhD programs for their students are at Harvard, Columbia and Yale, and the most-attended business/law/medical schools are Harvard, Columbia, and U Penn), ultimately any one individual’s prospects for graduate schools and job success are based more on the STUDENT than the college. A motivated person can excel from anywhere.
And a few years into a career, no one cares where you went to college. Potential employers will care more what you have done so far in your career and what kind of an impact you are making.
And, I do not remember the name of the study- maybe another poster might?- but there was a study that showed that students who were admitted to Ivies but chose less prestigious colleges instead, had similar outcomes to the Ivy grads. So, again, the student matters more than the college for outcomes. That said, obviously alumni connections can give one a boost.
I think once you get past the tippy top schools, these things become regional. So if you want to work in Philadelphia, Villanova will be better than any of the others you listed. Of course, Wharton would be even better, but that is a “tippy top”.
If we’re going to make this about intellectual ability, then you can’t use schools in essentially the same band – which is what Brandeis, Villanova and Fordham are. I believe Fordham is uniformly excellent, offering students the world’s greatest laboratory right outside its front door. Tremendous outcomes. Yet it lags in rankings.
Where does all this leave Reed? There is a school that won’t play rankings games. It’s faulty to assume there may only be a handful of intellectual kids – that must be searched for – at a place like Reed.
As far as I can tell from available research, it makes little or no difference to career earnings … unless, perhaps, you’re talking about very big differences in selectivity/rank, or else (perhaps) a very few career fields.
Also note when comparing outcomes, many students at prestigious colleges already have connections that may account for some differences - i.e., grandpa’s law firm or Uncle Joe who picks up the phone to pitch nephew to his golf buddy…
@Middleman68 This is why I specifically did not want to make the question about fit, or the quality of peers or intellectual discourse. This is purely a question of outcomes. I’m not negating the importance of those other factors, but 1) they are highly subjective and personal and 2) I think many people do care about outcome in picking a college. These are very different questions.
Kids that go to a college far from their desired industry/business centers have a tougher job search road because they will have a long distance job search in my opinion. But after that I am one who believes the “kid” is a stronger determinate than the college and a strong internship also can trump other factors. A couple years out of college and the “which college” factor is even less important.
Hard to say because it depends on the region and the audience but here in Southern CA where I live, Stanford Univ definitely elicits some sort of WOW or at least a wow response. Again, that has been based on purely our own experience.
There are going to be hiring managers in GA who have never heard of Brandeis, and some in Mass who have never heard of Mercer. There are many in Iowa who haven’t heard of either. Doesn’t mean you won’t get the interview but you might have to explain where (and why) you went to school there. I was told by a boss that I wouldn’t have been interviewed if I’d gone to a school that was fewer than 10 blocks from the one I went to. I don’t think that’s true but maybe. It clearly meant more to him than to me, and he was a guy who didn’t go to a prestigious school (in fact he went to a school that had closed).
Outcomes are fine, but they shred US News’ view of the world. There was a recent survey where Fairfield grads made more than Yale. Is that prestige? And LACs often aren’t career-oriented.
@gallentjill Depends on a number of factors. In some industries you will not get in without prestigious U. ( Investment banking, top software firms (Google level), top consulting firm (with few exceptions). Then you add in what I think is the best reason for going to prestigious U, a higher starting salary. This is all changing thankfully, but it still exists and will likely exist for another generation.
Someone else mentioned Uncle Big Bucks calling a friend for an internship. I got two of these in the last month from friend of a friend. Kids want good internships so they can build a resume and alumni/ae can help.
Regionalism helps a lot too. If you live in certain areas where there are lots of great colleges expect to be overlooked if you did not attend one. If you live in an area where there are a handful of colleges or most went to giant U then it’s likely fine. Agree with the poster who said if you live on the West Coast and went to Stanford, you’ll get the Wow factor, likewise if you live on the East Coast and went to Harvard/MIT or Columbia.
For the student who could attend the most prestigious and took another path, I think they are likely to end up in a good place. They may not get the initial boost a high level U will bring but if they are hard working at such a young age, it’s likely they will work hard and move along in their career.
@gallentjill the factors that you mention… fit, peers, intellectual discourse, etc… are going to affect outcomes. I also believe there are successful students at all schools.
If you take identical twins who are identical in every way… academics, same interests, exactly the same personality and temperament, same maturity level, same social skills, same amount of grit, etc… and placed one at Harvard and the other at a decent state or private school …what would happen? Is that what you are asking? I guess I am a little confused.