Rather than say, “I have seen posts here warning…,” you might first question the authority of those posters. Don’t let them spin your head. What I’ve seen in posts on many of your threads is that many of us who are satisfied with our kids’ results shut out that noise. At least, until we were able to weigh it.
Anecdote. Among my kids’ hs classmates, many went to schools that were out of the top 50. I’m pleased at how successful they are, some with impressive jobs snd/or in exciting cities. Law school, graduate programs and more. It’s the kid. Her vision, how she activates or not, the experiences she takes on that form her for her future.
I’d spend the time now getting the right read on my kid- today and what’s probable in the next year. What empowers her, big fish in a small pond or small fish in a big pond? How does she press toward goals- or not? Is she a life of the mind sort or more focused on career? Resilient or more encouraged by gentle experiences? Etc.
It doesn’t matter what folks say about recruiting for intl banking and finance or big corporate America or engineering, if your kid isn’t headed in that direction. Somewhere during college, she’ll solidify her goals and ideally start getting experience (beyond academics) in that, whether internships, practicums, a summer job, volunteer, in clubs or other.
Be careful before putting the cart before the horse.
There's no way to divorce this question from something like "fit." Because the best college for a kid is the college where the kid does best. Grades, yes, but not just grades. Enthusiasm, engagement, maturity, understanding themselves and what they want. A successful, engaged applicant from Brand X college is going to be hired over a student from Prestige U who is barely getting by. That's probably even true of Mercer vs. Harvard, and it's certainly true of Mercer vs. Villanova.
There was some discussion above about a candidate from Pomona vs. one from Bucknell, and someone said that the student from Bucknell would have an advantage in Pennsylvania. Ummm, no. At least, not necessarily. First off, it's not like everyone in Pennsylvania has an idea what Pomona represents, but there are plenty of people who do, and they tend to be associated with some nice jobs.
Even if they don’t know anything about Pomona, it’s entirely likely that a Pomona job candidate is going to look different from a Bucknell job candidate. Not that Bucknell doesn’t have kids who could have gone to Pomona – it does – but the median Bucknell student looking for a job in Pennsylvania is not going to look like the median Pomona student looking for a job here. The median Bucknell job seeker is probably going to look pretty much like the median Bucknell student. The median Pomona job seeker is probably going to be one of the 10 or 15 students per class from Pennsylvania at Pomona. They are likely to be privileged, sophisticated, private-school (or very fancy public school) stars. I wouldn’t bet against them.
Something I suspect the statistics mask: People who go to different types of colleges/universities aren't necessarily competing for the same jobs, at least not early in their careers. Some are, but I think there are lots of different spheres. It's not that the jobs that the elite college graduates get are necessarily "better", or higher paid; they're just different jobs, different organizations.
I say this because both of my kids have jobs they would not have gotten had they gone to Brand X College rather than Prestige U. They’re not such fabulous jobs that anyone should be green with envy; but they’re jobs where having a prestige degree was simply an informal part of the qualifications. Actually, it’s more complicated, or maybe simpler than that. My daughter has her current job in part because she had her previous job, and her previous job was the one where almost everyone had elite educational credentials. That gave her training and visibility that got her a next-level job with a much smaller organization that used her credential from the previous job as a qualification. My son works for an organization affiliated with Prestige U and located on its campus. Over half the people there have some sort of degree from Prestige U, and the rest tend to come from Prestige U’s peers. Things are probably different at the organization’s regional offices scattered around the U.S.
I’m sure no one sits around there saying “We don’t want to hire anyone not from Prestige U.” It’s more like, the employer has lots of visibility at Prestige U, and not so much elsewhere. The people doing the hiring know the people writing the recommendations. The people applying for jobs know to apply there, and tend to have friends already working there. They know what the company is looking for. It’s easy for them to get hired, so they tend to apply there.
Same thing with all the kids from Harvard going to investment banks and consulting firms. For them, that tends to be an easy, comfortable way to get a high-paying job that feels as prestigious as Harvard. The equivalent kids elsewhere are probably knocking the cover off the ball in completely different jobs.
I.e., you are more impressed by early bloomers than late bloomers? Or those who are much more likely to have had an advantaged high opportunity upbringing than most college graduates?
While I don’t doubt that Pomona students can find a job in PA, it’s generally going to be an easier path to meet that goal for Bucknell students. Bucknell recruiting events have many PA employers attending, far more than Pomona… This relates to why the linked Bucknell grad survey shows more Bucknell grads working in PA than any other state, and the majority working in PA, NY, or NJ… likely within driving distance of campus. With more Bucknell grads working at such companies, there is likely to be a stronger alumni network and related special connections through the college. I’m sure that many smaller company PA employers know something about Pomona, but they are generally going to be more familiar with the nearby Bucknell, and many are going to have a history of hiring Bucknell grads and have a prior impression of how they tend to do at the company.
It’s a similar idea for other areas. For example, if you want to work at Apple, it’s generally going to be an easier path to do so for a San Jose State CS grad than at University of Florida CS grad. Florida has a great CS prgraml that is much higher ranked than SJS, and I have no doubt Apple has heard of University of Florida and would fully consider the resume of a Florida grad. However, it doesn’t have the many special connections that occur from SJS being located by the Apple main campus… This includes things like Apple doing a larger degree of recruiting at career fairs and for internships, special internship/co-op opportunities linked to SJS classes, special connections with professors who have worked/consulted at Apple and likely emphasize Apple style of tech, having a greater number of SJS alumni working at Apple than any other college leading to a huge alumni network, etc.
@ucbalumnus I’m really impressed with kids who excelled up through high school, got accepted to and graduated from an elite college and after college did/do some great things.
To the OP, in some ways the “prestige boost” never really ends as the experience of being immersed in an elite college for 4 years stays with you the rest of your life and can be found in the way you look at the world through these lenses. And even if the prestige boost only mattered for that first internship or first job, it can be a very important first step for the rest of your career.
Lastly, every resume I have ever read from potential job candidates always have a section for college. If the name of the college was completely unimportant, you would just list your degree “B.S. Chemistry”, “B.A. Political Science”, etc. no need to list what college you attended, right since it’s not important at all…?
For most jobs there is no benefit to a high ranked university, because most jobs just don’t need any academic capability. A local widget salesman need not have attended Harvard, and the employer will not go “wow” in a good way.
If you want to raise money to sell fantasy widgets (maybe call them “bitcoin”), then the Harvard name will help.
Clearly, it’s about the kid. Cream rises to the top. That said, put “the kid” in a better environment, and it will be easier for the kid to launch. When “the kid” is surrounded by a certain peer group, with the right resources (including OCR and strong alumni network), the right expectations of success (ecosystem), they will likely do well. They can still do well from lesser circumstances but it’s harder.
I think there’s a lot of value for the next level kid who has a great track record but tends to go with the flow. Probably more important for that kid to flow in the right stream. This stream represents a wide patch of kids.
I’m going to try again because I don’t think I’m phrasing my question correctly. Assume for the sake of argument that there IS a real boost from a school like Harvard. My question isn’t State U vs. Harvard. My question is whether there is a boost from a school a step below that over a school far further down the rankings.
Lets keep it in a similar locale to make thinks simple. How much of an outcome boost does a school like Fordham offer over a school like Adelphi or Hunter College? How much does Bucknell offer over West Chester?
Look at alumni pages and see what people are doing one year out, five years out. Look at LinkedIn and see what recent graduates are doing that are recent grads…these are a couple ways to glean intel.
^^^ I think (quite subjective) there is always a boost or benefit IF one takes advantage of the resources available. So, it still depends on the kid. How motivated and resourceful are they? I can’t speak to the specific colleges you mention but assuming they are tier 2 vs tier 3 based on whatever criteria, what makes tier 2 tier 2? At some level, you need to move break away from the prestige of the school and move to the prestige of the program.
For example, BU has “mid level” prestige overall (my opinion I guess) but is quite renowned for it’s communciations / film/ TV program. They actually have an internship / co-op relationship with HBO that places kids in NY and LA to work on real shows. Head of HBO is an alum (that’s the value of a strong alumni network). Do they have kids form other schools? Sure. But EVERY yr, they have kids from BU. They tend to have a good reputation in that field. So a kid form BU likely gets a boost over a kid from UMASS in name alone and a big boost if s/he took advantage of the opportunities.
The boost itself comes from previous kids doing well in field X so employer Y has a better sense of what they’re getting. The resources at the school help the student be better prepared to do a good job, so it’s a vicious circle.
Judging from the responses on this thread, the read-between-the-lines answer to your question is “not much in most cases” with the exception of a situation specific to a specific kid or a specific major.
Very little employment boost between two known colleges that are say 40 or 50 points apart on the USNWR rankings. Almost no difference in perceived “prestige” because knowledge of that level of detail is rare. Most of the general public thinks about this in very simplistic terms, grouping colleges into “wow” vs “all others” or maybe the slightly more granular “awesome schools”, “normal schools” and “crappy schools”. Given that 2 or 3 level ranking system, it’s not worth worrying about an Adelphi vs Fordham prestige difference.
Unless there’s a very specific reason your kid would benefit from an Adelphi vs Fordham, choose the one that’s less expensive and don’t spend any more time worrying about it.
Agree with @milee30 in the second, third tier it probably doesn’t matter much. That said, if the school has a specialized program that is well known and your kid want to follow that career path than your kid will likely do better in the program that is well rated. People in specialized industries know the programs (as cited above about BU in Media).
I’d also check out starting salaries as much as possible. If kids are starting out even slightly higher than other schools due to a good career dept or alumni connections that boost follows the kid for life. Check out studies which show that the starting salary out of college in the first job is the most important predictor or financial path. It’s not all about the money. But it is important. The first job sets the tone. Kids forget this.
Gallent- you’d get better answers if you were more specific.
If I had a kid interested in a career in the arts, or arts management, and the kid got into Fordham and we could afford it, I wouldn’t hesitate to pay the premium over Adelphi (if in fact Adelphi were cheaper). The peer group at Fordham is going to lift my kid’s game-- just to stay afloat. The academic and placement resources are deeper in the arts, the type of well rounded education (imho) is clearly a step above Adelphi.
So what is it exactly are you asking- kid wants to teach 3rd grade math, should you pay the premium for a more expensive college? Some people would say yes, others would say no, I would say “it depends”- I had a HS classmate who wanted to be an elementary school math teacher, parents stretched for the private college (although back then the stretch wasn’t as steep); she is the co-author of an extremely popular math text book and retired at age 40 (didn’t even wait for her full pension to kick in) and now is a consultant to school systems, think tanks, publishing companies on “disruptive math teaching techniques”. She’s had a brilliant career. Would it have been possible at no-name teacher’s college? No doubt. But she launched into a career in elementary ed already running a faster race then a student from that no-name teacher’s college. (My friend spent four years explaining to professors who asked “don’t you want to become an actuary or a statistician” that she really, really wanted to teach kids math).
So if you can be specific maybe we can help. Otherwise- does it help you to know that Williams is a better place to study Art History than Framingham State, and that the “prestige boost” is going to last 20+ years given the strength of the Williams Art Mafia?
@ Blossom the art Williams art mafia is well known mostly in NYC and only in some art fields. But Framingham state and Williams are worlds apart in prestige… The OP is asking about similar schools. So Williams and U Penn in the art world would be a better correlation.
@blossom You make a good point. I’m really just gathering general information for younger kiddos who have many years to go so I don’t have a specific question geared to my personal situation. I am occasionally troubled by the way some of the lower ranked schools are denigrated on these sites, but I don’t have enough information or experience to know whether its warranted.
? Where exactly is the gap in prestige between Williams and U Penn? And in virtually every case they cost the same. So kid wants rural- go to Williams. Kid wants urban- go to Penn.
This seems like a no-brainer. I thought OP was asking about the prestige gap.